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  1. #1
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    Default ICSI + good sperm = poor fertilisation???

    I'm hoping to find people who have experienced the above; used ICSI with a decent sperm sample, but still got very poor fertilisation rates (i.e. less than 50%)

    Firstly, my long story short:

    - DH and I started ICSI due to severe MFI.
    - Cycle #1: 6 eggs, all mature, all ICSI'd with a terrible batch of DH's frozen sperm, only 1 fertilised.
    - Cycle #2: 10 eggs, 6 mature, only one of DH's live sperm could be found in thawed sample, 1 egg ICSI'd, and miraculously fertilised.

    NOW:

    - Cycle #3: No frozen sperm left, and nothing found in TESA/PESA, so we used anon US donor back-up. 8 eggs, 5 mature.... only 2 fertilised. One didn't make it to Day 5, the other was fine until Day 4 when it fell behind, and was only a morula when transferred, instead of a blasty.

    From POAS, I believe that I managed to achieve a very brief chemical pregnancy from this emby.

    However, I'm really scared about doing future cycles, as I always thought our bad fert rates were due to DH's bad sperm. But now that we're using donor sperm that has been screened for quality and we're still getting low fert rates with ICSI, I'm wondering if the problem also lies with me, and whether the same thing will keep happening.

    Has anyone else used ICSI (not IVF) with good quality sperm, but had bad fertilisation rates (less than 50% of mature eggs retrieved)? Did you still have success eventually? Were you given any reasons as to why it happened? Did you change anything or do anything differently and got a better result next time?

    I hope someone can relate to this scenario, as it would be great to have a chat and pick your brains, so to speak. My follow-up appt for this cycle isn't for another week, so I can't talk to FS until then. At transfer, neither he or the embryologist could give me a reason as to why it had happened.

    Thanks for reading.

  2. #2
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    Default ICSI + good sperm = poor fertilisation???

    Is your age a factor? There are a few things I have used for egg quality that I think worked for me. Zinc and Q10. I still only got 60% fertilization, but most made it to blast :-)
    I know others have used other things, so I hope you get more responses.
    There is also some guideline as to timeline and the influence of egg/sperm but I can't quite remember it..... Something like early development mostly influenced by the egg and after so many days more influence of the sperm. I will go see of I can find it.

  3. #3
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    Thanks Zabella, I'm thinking of trying Zinc and CoQ10 over the next 3 months before my next cycle, hopefully that might help. I've also been told royal jelly.And I've heard that emby development theory too, but also heard others refute it.. argh, so confusing.Hoping there are others here who can offer their experiences too... ETA: Oh, and I'm only 31 and my AMH a year ago was 15.1, so age/AMH shouldn't be a factor.
    Last edited by Sariele; 19-11-2012 at 16:15.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Sariele For This Useful Post:

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  5. #4
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    Hi Sariele,

    Sorry to hear your issues with poor fertalisation as I have been in your position!

    With only 1 ovary, my FS insisted on ICSI for our first every cycle. DH sperm always was a good count and motility and morph etc so that was not an issue.

    #1 resulted in 11 eggs with only 2 fert which we were devastated about. Unfortunately the embs were pretty crappy - 1 was transferred 4 days later but had vaccuoels (air bubbles) and was a little behind in cells. The other emb unfortunately was not good and died. BFN (this was an ultra long down cycle)

    #2 resulted in 13 eggs with only 1 fert. Beyond devatsted especially as they decided to double inject some of the eggs and used a special mix of calcium which they believe would help the sperm fertalise the eggs which apparantely happens naturally! This emb was transferred but was not good quality due to severe fragmentation and also resulted in a BFN (this was antagonist cycle)

    #3 resulted in 12 eggs with 6 fertalising. This was our best result yet as our FS decided it was our last attempt as he said "no improvement on fertalisition means no point continuing with your eggs, you may have to look at donor eggs". He threw everything at us as a last ditch effort. I was put on a human growth hormone called Saizen. Basically they say it is red bull for eggs! Unfortunately it is not covered by medicare or private health and I had to have the jab for 5 days at $200 per vile - so adding another $1000 onto our cycle (with no money back).
    It was awful, I had a terrible cycle with side effects of headaches and nausea and extreme fatigue but it worked for us with our best results! We also managed for the first time ever to freeze 3 embryos.

    Our emb that was transferred was excelled and was already compacting on transfer day. We were successful with a BFP but unfortunately I miscarried the baby at 11 weeks due to my 6cm fibroid (which is coming out next week).

    So please don't lose hope!

    We were told that it was desperate for us and I honestly believe the HGH Saizen worked. I hope that your FS is able to suggest this for you and if they don't then suggest it yourself!

    Good luck with everything and PM if you want to know any more information x

  6. #5
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    Thanks Rivergirl, wow you have had a rough trot!! I'm sorry about your m/c, I hope that one of your frosties is even more lucky than your BFP emby.

    I have heard of Saizen in passing but had no idea what it was used for. It's good to know that there is something out there that might work if it comes down to the point you guys were at.

    Best of luck with the fibroid removal and your impending FET!

  7. #6
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    We had Icsi for 1st cycle, 5 eggs 4 fertilised, had two transfers bfn, last embryo didn't thaw well.

    2nd cycle to fourth cycle all picsi.

    2nd cycle 11 eggs 60+% fert rate all bfn

    3rd cycle 11 eggs 55% fert rate all bfn

    4th cycle 5 eggs, 3 mature eggs 100% fert rate, two transferred 1 BFP, last embryo didn't make to freeze.

    dh's sperm was bad but I have low ovarian reserve. I am 35 when IVF began and 38 when I got my BFP. I reckon egg quality was an issue for us too.

    tried acupuncture doubt it worked for me. Tried Tcm could have helped me somewhat, on it for more than a year spent thousands.

    fourth cycle did lots self massage and did 2/3 rounds foot reflexology...hoping to improve circulation. I always think that helped us with the egg quality. Plus that cycle I also used pregynl during my antagonist cycle.

  8. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sariele View Post
    Thanks Zabella, I'm thinking of trying Zinc and CoQ10 over the next 3 months before my next cycle, hopefully that might help. I've also been told royal jelly.And I've heard that emby development theory too, but also heard others refute it.. argh, so confusing.Hoping there are others here who can offer their experiences too... ETA: Oh, and I'm only 31 and my AMH a year ago was 15.1, so age/AMH shouldn't be a factor.

    I was on lots stuff..incl fish oil, royal jelly, antioxidants, coq10. Dh was on antioxidants and zinc.

  9. #8
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    Thanks Mom2, I'm glad you got your BFP in the end. What did "self massage" involve?

  10. #9
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    I used castor oil and another oil (wormwood) I bought from my Tcm practitioner and massaged my tummy, reproductive areas every day about 2-3 times during the follicular phase.

  11. #10
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    Okay, I've never heard of that before. Thanks!


 

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