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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post

    Anyway, I think this kind of discussion can be very sensitive to those who have lost.
    Agreed. I also think it's no coincidence that a lot of posters here struggling with this are women who have undergone IVF. I am pro-choice to the hilt, but since doing IVF it has made it very hard for me to read about terminations of unwanted babies when I have so many friends on the IVF threads who move heaven and go through hell to have their babies, and often will leave this world childless.

    It doesn't make me less pro-choice, but it certainly makes me understand everyone has a story, not just us those who've had to terminate.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    Agreed. I also think it's no coincidence that a lot of posters here struggling with this are women who have undergone IVF. I am pro-choice to the hilt, but since doing IVF it has made it very hard for me to read about terminations of unwanted babies when I have so many friends on the IVF threads who move heaven and go through hell to have their babies, and often will leave this world childless.

    It doesn't make me less pro-choice, but it certainly makes me understand everyone has a story, not just us those who've had to terminate.
    I agree with this, it is hard knowing that there are so many women who struggle to have children (i am one of them) but i've had the same view on late term abortion for years before i did IVF and it hasn't changed at all. With no disrespect to your post intended

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    With no disrespect to your post intended
    None taken. I wasn't just referring to your post

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    None taken. I wasn't just referring to your post
    No i know but I was waiting for the comment on this thread "you're an infertile women so you think you should force women to have babies they don't want and give them up for adoption to people who can't have babies" it always pops up.

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    Calling a woman who had an abortion selfish is quite cruel.

    I don't think it's selfish to decide what you want for your own body. Like men get to do every single day. They are not forced into doing something so life changing and with such a huge impact, like pregnancy can have on a woman.

    With both of my pregnancies I was very sick, vomiting all the time, very unwell, put on a lot of weight and had to quit my job/study.

    I had a terrible birth the first time and ended in an emergency C section where I lost a lot of blood and and was very sick for months.

    I then was literally left holding the baby while the father walked off without a care when she was only 16 months old(with my first). I was young, hadn't finished my studies, had no car, not much support, no licence and lived in poverty. My life was incredibly difficult.

    I'm glad I kept my baby and adoption was something I could never consider.

    But it wasn't conservative voters or male politicians or forced birthers, who had to live with the harsh realities and long lasting effects of childbirth and pregnancy. They weren't the ones who had to worry about how to keep the electricity on or how to afford warm winter clothes for my child.

    In fact as my second link shows they are usually the ones trying to reduce support to sole parents and who in fact contribute the most to the abortion rate.

    If women have safe legal access to abortions, maternity leave, job protection, financial and study support, if women know they will have options and a society that will help them when it matters with their children, they are less likely to have a termination.

    As to how many weeks a woman should get to decide till? Well it's her body allways. The end.

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Circumstances can change I know, but if they change after the birth of a child, you cannot just put that child back, the same should go for later stage pregnancy. I don't mean in the case of medical emergency, I just mean if it's a case of 'no longer being in a position for a child'.

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    You can put your child into foster care once they are born if you cannot cope with them afterwards (but were okay to beforehand). There are also relatives to rely upon. Chances are though, if you have a baby and things change, you WANTED to have that baby all along, so are willing to make as many sacrifices as you can to cater to its needs.

    If you have a termination, you either don't want to be pregnant, ever, or now, for various reasons. These reasons are very personal, and nobody has the right to say to another woman that she has the responsibility to allow a baby to risk her own mental and physical health when she does not want it to happen. It seems that so many think that a woman's right to bodily autonomy is overruled the moment she is impregnated... and then it's her responsibility to be little more than a sacrificial lamb to that baby.

    What an absolute joke.

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Riddle me this... How does full body autonomy allow you to determine the fate of a baby once it's out if your body? The notion of full body autonomy may allow a woman to choose to expel a baby from her body, but when others of the same gestation are being given every chance in the NICU, why shouldn't they be afforded the same chance?

    I am completely pro-choice, but I don't believe this extends to determining the fate of a viable baby.

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    I think abortion should be safe and available for women who want them, for any reason they want and they shouldn't have to explain their reasons. I guess though, i don't think it should be legal an any gestation (which it's not currently).

    I can't put an abortion at 3 months and an abortion at 8 months in the same basket. At some point, the rights of the child surely should at least be considered as well as that of the mother. I didn't realise being "pro choice" meant you had to approve of having an abortion as late as you want, when the child is almost fully developed. It's a tough grey area.

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    If you have a termination, you either don't want to be pregnant, ever, or now, for various reasons. These reasons are very personal, and nobody has the right to say to another woman that she has the responsibility to allow a baby to risk her own mental and physical health when she does not want it to happen. It seems that so many think that a woman's right to bodily autonomy is overruled the moment she is impregnated... and then it's her responsibility to be little more than a sacrificial lamb to that baby.

    What an absolute joke.
    Ending a pregnancy past 24 weeks doesn't necessarily mean the healthy viable baby has to die to achieve this. I agree she shouldn't be forced to continue with the pregnancy.
    Last edited by Izy; 09-11-2012 at 18:49.

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