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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    That is your personal opinion. In my opinion if it has a heart beat it is a baby. And using terms such as 'fetus' only serve to make a mother feel more comfortable about a decision to abort by creating a distance with the realities of what they are doing.

    Would you tell a mother who miscarried a much wanted bub at 8,10,12 weeks to get over it because it was a fetus not a baby?

    We can't say a wanted being is a baby and an unwanted being is a lump of cells, a fetus.
    Oh so now you're going to play the martyr? Yeah right.

    As above in my post I explained what I meant.

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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Would you tell a mother who miscarried a much wanted bub at 8,10,12 weeks to get over it because it was a fetus not a baby?
    I'm not sure that anyone actually mourns for their foetus as such, rather they mourn for the baby that foetus might have become.

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    Default Re: Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Hitlers mother was going to abort him, before her doctor talked her out of it. Not sure how that benefitted humanity.

    A man was recently charged with the r@pe of a two year old in Hobart. I don‘t see how that man benefits humanity?

    Just something to think about, if you think taking control of a womans body and forcing her to have a baby is for the good of humanity.

    Sent from my HUAWEI-U8850 using BubHub

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  5. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackEyedPea View Post
    Its not a baby it's a foetus, that cannot survive outside the mothers body. Terminating a pregnancy is not 'killing a baby'.
    I do agree with what you have been saying, but just wanted to point out that this his doesn't apply for late term abortions where the child would survive if born.

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    its also very hard to determine "when is it a baby". I know there is a medical definition but when i saw my "foetus" at 12 weeks it was kicking its legs, sucking its thumb, wriggling all over the place. Very hard for me to think of it as anything other than a baby, even that early. I know all women are different though. I just find it hard to figure out when you draw the line (if a line is to be drawn) at what gestation you should be able to abort up to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    its also very hard to determine "when is it a baby". I know there is a medical definition but when i saw my "foetus" at 12 weeks it was kicking its legs, sucking its thumb, wriggling all over the place. Very hard for me to think of it as anything other than a baby, even that early. I know all women are different though. I just find it hard to figure out when you draw the line (if a line is to be drawn) at what gestation you should be able to abort up to.
    I had a big bleed at 13 weeks with DD and had a scan. She was furiously kicking and thrashing around, putting her hand to her face. So while I acknowledge some consider it a foetus, it's certainly a baby to me way before this stage. It would be interesting to start a thread on when it's a baby to different members.... but I dare not go there lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    That is your personal opinion. In my opinion if it has a heart beat it is a baby. And using terms such as 'fetus' only serve to make a mother feel more comfortable about a decision to abort by creating a distance with the realities of what they are doing.

    Would you tell a mother who miscarried a much wanted bub at 8,10,12 weeks to get over it because it was a fetus not a baby?

    We can't say a wanted being is a baby and an unwanted being is a lump of cells, a fetus.
    I could say that you call it a baby to serve to make a mother feel bad for undergoing a termination. Creating a distance with the realities of what others are doing.

    I agree with delirium, it's subjective. I don't think medically or legally it is considered a baby in the early stages, it is an embryo and then a fetus, then a baby but it isn't up to others to dictate how women should feel about their own situations.

    Some women consider their embryos as a result of IVF potential lives, so cannot bring themselves to dispose of them. According to you, this is a baby, and those who do dispose of them are 'killing babies'. Who are we to tell others how to feel about the products of their own bodies?

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I had a big bleed at 13 weeks with DD and had a scan. She was furiously kicking and thrashing around, putting her hand to her face. So while I acknowledge some consider it a foetus, it's certainly a baby to me way before this stage. It would be interesting to start a thread on when it's a baby to different members.... but I dare not go there lol
    yes it's a tricky one isn't it. I also would assume that most women having an abortion would not have had an ultrasound. I guess if most women had an ultrasound and saw it kicking and moving around, it would probably sway the decision of some to have an abortion.

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    Apparently they do a u/s before the procedure to make sure they aren't over the 12 weeks (obviously for the non LTA's). But they don't show the mum, and I understand that. It must be a difficult enough decision without seeing it kicking I think for a woman that is 100% sure (so no coersion) it would be cruel to do that. I know many pro lifers believe they should have to watch it to show it's a 'baby' (I put that in inverted commas bc it isn't to some). I don't agree with that. Just as it's terrible for a girl or woman to be forced into an abortion they don't want by family and FOB, it would be terrible for her to keep it just bc she was guilted into it.

    Out of all the parenting topics I find this one the hardest to process as my views tend to be at odds with each other. The bottom line for me though, is I'm a realist. There will always be women out there not wanting to keep their babies for lots of reasons. Therefore safe abortion has to be offered.

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    I agree with you delirium, in fact I would imagine most who are pro-choice would. It's not a nice topic, I have never heard of anyone who is pro-abortion and WANTS women to have abortions but pro-choice is more about giving women the option.

    I don't think it's a decision to take lightly, I do believe women should be free of persuasion of any kind, it does often have emotional as well as physical consequences.

    personally I don't think I could ever have one unless there was an extreme circumstance, like my existing son would end up motherless because I would likely die if I continued the pregnancy...or if the baby would suffer immensely once born. But I don't want to imagine a world where the option isn't there...and yes this does include for the potential children who could be born into very bad and tragic situations.


 

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