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  1. #151
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    with LTA it really is hard to know where to draw the line. That is the part i struggle with. I feel at some point during the gestation, the baby has a right to life especially when if born, it would easily survive.

    I feel like at some point, you have to consider the rights of both the mother and the child.

  2. #152
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    .

    Just how lots of people do things I think are off... but I'd also not think it okay to take their choices away from them just so I feel more comfortable.
    Imagine if everyone in Germany in the 1940's had the same 'let them do what they choose' attitude....

    Oh hang on... All heil freedom of choice!

  3. #153
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    Default Re: Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Imagine if everyone in Germany in the 1940's had the same 'let them do what they choose' attitude....

    Oh hang on... All heil freedom of choice!
    So.... in your world, where abortion is illegal and everyone is forced to have the babies they don‘t want.... What happens to them?

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  5. #154
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Imagine if everyone in Germany in the 1940's had the same 'let them do what they choose' attitude....

    Oh hang on... All heil freedom of choice!
    Your argument is a bit flawed!

    Freedom of choice would've meant the Jews were not persecuted, but they were for their choice of religion.

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  7. #155
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    Your argument is a bit flawed!

    Freedom of choice would've meant the Jews were not persecuted, but they were for their choice of religion.
    No it's not. Sassy was saying its not ok to stop someone from doing something just because your uncomfortable with it. Apply that same logic to abortion... Then killing Jews in the holocost. My point is when it comes to something abhorrent, apathy is the cowards way out and leads to horrible things becoming the norm.

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    So.... in your world, where abortion is illegal and everyone is forced to have the babies they don‘t want.... What happens to them?

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    - adoption
    - help with raising the bub (moral, financial)
    - free contraception (yes, I know it's a foreign concept but part of the plan would involve women taking responsibility for not falling pregnant in the first place)
    - free sterilisation for repeat offenders

  9. #157
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    LJ I don't understand what you're asking. I think a woman can terminate whenever she pleases. If she doesn't want to give birth to a live baby, then she shouldn't have to. That's it. It doesn't matter to me if it's viable or not. I've said I couldn't understand why anyone would terminate a pregnancy when they could instead just give birth to it living (since they'd have to give birth to it either way anyway), but I don't think that my lack of understanding means anything to anyone else and what they should be entitled to do.

    I just believe that if a woman does not want to give birth to her live baby, then that is her choice.

    If the baby is born living due to a failed termination, whatever medical treatment would be available to any other child born at that stage should be afforded to that baby.

    I hope that makes my stance more understandable.



    It feels like you're trying to get me to admit I find it all lovely and dandy for women to have terminations. I don't. It's just that I don't think that my personal beliefs on the matter should have any impact whatsoever on whether or not a woman aborts.

    ETA: I totally understand how everyone is against LTA after 24 weeks. It doesn't sit well with me either. It's just that I don't see how my opinions about things should impact another woman and her view on what is right for her and her body and the foetus she created... kwim?

    Just how lots of people do things I think are off... but I'd also not think it okay to take their choices away from them just so I feel more comfortable. I hope that makes sense.
    I'm pointing out the distinction between giving a woman control over her own body, and giving her control over whether her baby lives or dies.

    You keep talking about giving people choices, but you wouldn't give a woman the choice to kill her two year old so obviously you draw the line somewhere. That line appears to be "while it's in her body" and I'm asking why? IMO autonomy over her own body only extends to aborting the pregnancy, not killing the child.
    Last edited by lambjam; 11-11-2012 at 07:13.

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    - adoption
    - help with raising the bub (moral, financial)
    - free contraception (yes, I know it's a foreign concept but part of the plan would involve women taking responsibility for not falling pregnant in the first place)
    - free sterilisation for repeat offenders
    How do you deal with the issue then of backyard abortions (where lots of women and very young girls could die) if you ban it?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    - adoption
    - help with raising the bub (moral, financial)
    - free contraception (yes, I know it's a foreign concept but part of the plan would involve women taking responsibility for not falling pregnant in the first place)
    - free sterilisation for repeat offenders
    Moral help? Are there classes for that?

    And how about the fathers? Should we keep a DNA register of males who abandon their unborn children? Or force men to register every sperm ejaculation in case it results in a child? If we're talking pro-life from time of conception here... Then the father ought to be contributing financially from the get-go, no? From the date of conception... If we're going to control women's fertility in such a way then we also must control men's, let's be clear on that.

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  14. #160
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    No it's not. Sassy was saying its not ok to stop someone from doing something just because your uncomfortable with it. Apply that same logic to abortion... Then killing Jews in the holocost. My point is when it comes to something abhorrent, apathy is the cowards way out and leads to horrible things becoming the norm.
    Your definition of abhorrent is a abortion. The idea of forced pregnancy is more abhorrent. Most people would agree. Most people want women to have the right to safe terminations, instead of being forced into dodgy backyard jobs that don't even reduce the number of above thins anyway.

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