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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Does it happen though? I really find it hard to believe that medical staff would hand them out willy nilly, I remember the drama a friend of mine went though when she had to terminate a wanted pregnancy that would have meant the end of her life - medical panels, waiting, etc.

    if it is happening, I would imagne they'd be treated as any other live being. I think there always has to be an option to terminate pregnancies because backyard jobs will always cause more harm to women and their babies.
    MIT happens - its called passive euthanasia (withholding treatment). It used to (still does?) happen commonly in cases of infants with downs syndrome who were born with a bowel obstruction. Parents could opt for no medical intervention. A baby born with a bowel obstruction will die a slow death if the obstruction is left untreated. It's a routine procedure.

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    Benji  (10-11-2012)

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Removed to put elsewhere :-)
    Last edited by mrsoptomistic; 10-11-2012 at 20:14.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrsoptomistic View Post
    Just a quick question (off topic a bit - so mods please move if you like!) about the comment that some women choose to think of an abortion as removal of a collection of cells to help them cope with the reality of the situation.

    I am genuinely interested in opinions - i have never had an abortion, but having gone through IVF (and having a frozen embryo) I see this potential life, frozen embryo, not as a baby, but a collection of cells, which at some point I will have medically disposed...

    Whether it is in the freezer or inside me, I still see it as a bunch of cells, not a baby...?!

    So I suppose what i am asking is do you think disposal is any different/better than having an abortion?....?
    That is a great point and some women do refuse to have them disposed (think octomum). Some women donate theirs, too

    i do agree with your sentiment, if I were in your position I would see it as a potential baby as opposed to an actual baby....but then again I can understand the heartache of miscarriage... It's not black and white, is it?

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Thanks Benji, I guess it is different as it is early term, and there are no guarantees it'd defrost/stick anyway.... Thanks for your opinion 😊

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    Termination doesn't involve birthing a live baby then killing it though right (other than that "partial birth abortion," thing, which is not the same as actual birth IMO anyway)? Genuine question, just cos it's been mentioned a few times.
    So for examples sake, you'd be fine with a partial birth abortion of a 30+ week gestated baby that was in perfect health?

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    When people talk of aborting/terminating do they mean terminate the baby or the pregnancy? Because that could be two completely different kettles of fish when it comes to LTA and I think birthing a healthy baby and then terminating the baby would be abhorrent.

    mrs optimistic I saw you deleted your post, would you like me to delete my quote of yours?

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  10. #147
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    BUT... I also think that this my opinion based on my own beliefs and personal ethics. I don't expect anyone else to feel this way just because I do. So yeah, I guess I do support women being able to terminate at any stage during pregnancy, even if I don't agree with or understand why someone would (other than for medical reasons, of course).
    But on what grounds? Bodily autonomy doesn't cover this, because by my logic the woman retains bodily autonomy by not having to go through with the pregnancy. Whether the baby lives or dies is irrelevant to bodily autonomy. It then just comes down to a matter of preference, of convenience. And I don't believe those are compelling enough reasons

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    No benji that's fine! Just thought it belonged somewhere else ?! :-)

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    LJ I don't understand what you're asking. I think a woman can terminate whenever she pleases. If she doesn't want to give birth to a live baby, then she shouldn't have to. That's it. It doesn't matter to me if it's viable or not. I've said I couldn't understand why anyone would terminate a pregnancy when they could instead just give birth to it living (since they'd have to give birth to it either way anyway), but I don't think that my lack of understanding means anything to anyone else and what they should be entitled to do.

    I just believe that if a woman does not want to give birth to her live baby, then that is her choice.

    If the baby is born living due to a failed termination, whatever medical treatment would be available to any other child born at that stage should be afforded to that baby.

    I hope that makes my stance more understandable.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlissedOut View Post
    So for examples sake, you'd be fine with a partial birth abortion of a 30+ week gestated baby that was in perfect health?
    It feels like you're trying to get me to admit I find it all lovely and dandy for women to have terminations. I don't. It's just that I don't think that my personal beliefs on the matter should have any impact whatsoever on whether or not a woman aborts.

    ETA: I totally understand how everyone is against LTA after 24 weeks. It doesn't sit well with me either. It's just that I don't see how my opinions about things should impact another woman and her view on what is right for her and her body and the foetus she created... kwim?

    Just how lots of people do things I think are off... but I'd also not think it okay to take their choices away from them just so I feel more comfortable. I hope that makes sense.
    Last edited by SassyMummy; 10-11-2012 at 21:02.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    It feels like you're trying to get me to admit I find it all lovely and dandy for women to have terminations. I don't. It's just that I don't think that my personal beliefs on the matter should have any impact whatsoever on whether or not a woman aborts.

    ETA: I totally understand how everyone is against LTA after 24 weeks. It doesn't sit well with me either. It's just that I don't see how my opinions about things should impact another woman and her view on what is right for her and her body and the foetus she created... kwim?

    Just how lots of people do things I think are off... but I'd also not think it okay to take their choices away from them just so I feel more comfortable. I hope that makes sense.
    Sorry, I shouldn't have said fine, rather that you would support the mothers right to have this happen.


 

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