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  1. #131
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    So Sassy, are you saying that even if a baby was perfectly healthy and capable of sustaining life outside of its mother, she would still have the right to end its life while it was inside her body?

    Because I disagree. Even if she has the right to say "I don't want to carry this baby any longer", I don't believe that should extend to making the call about whether the baby lives or dies.

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    BlissedOut  (10-11-2012)

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    Assuming Pre-term foetuses/babies beyond 24(?) weeks have a chance of survival with incubation/life support, I can't see how such late-term abortion (other than for life-threatening illness to baby or mother) is justifiable/valid. The mother should have access to all the support she needs, but at this point, so should the baby.

    It would be a terrible situation for a woman to be in though.
    Last edited by Ellewood; 10-11-2012 at 19:38.

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    Sonja  (10-11-2012)

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    The issue I think is the actual 24 week cut off. Babies can survive if they are born at 24 weeks. In Victoria, and possibly other states it has also happened, a mother can legally have an abortion at 24 weeks. There are stories on this forum of women having babies earlier than 24 weeks that survived. So the argument that the baby depends on the mother for its life is only partially true - yes it's more likely to survive in utero but it can survive in care so should a mother still be able to elect to have an abortion?

    Dunno - hard one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    If a 6 month old is taken to A&E and the parents are told they have to operate/use intervention to save the baby's life, and the parent refused, based on the fact they never really wanted the child (or any reason) they would be facing DoCS involvement. If the baby died as a result of their refusal, there would be an inquest and possible criminal charges.
    I would think it would be treated as any other baby, however I would presume like in other cases if the baby is really sick and not likely to survive the parents would have the option to not intervene, turn the machines off so to speak. This does happen.

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    Argh! I really am in two minds about this a bit though... I mean, human gestation is 244(?) days. This is the time required in utero for a baby's best and healthiest chance of survival independent of its mother. Yes babies can survive with significant medical intervention extra-utero beyond 24 weeks but it doesn't mean it should happen and it often comes with life-long health issues for the infant... I don't know, it's so hard!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I would think it would be treated as any other baby, however I would presume like in other cases if the baby is really sick and not likely to survive the parents would have the option to not intervene, turn the machines off so to speak. This does happen.
    Sure, and I understand why parents do that with babies/kids that are incompatible with life. I can't imagine how difficult that decision is. But I think many are talking about healthy babies, just very premmie from a late term abortion.

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    Benji  (10-11-2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Sure, and I understand why parents do that with babies/kids that are incompatible with life. I can't imagine how difficult that decision is. But I think many are talking about healthy babies, just very premmie from a late term abortion.
    Does it happen though? I really find it hard to believe that medical staff would hand them out willy nilly, I remember the drama a friend of mine went though when she had to terminate a wanted pregnancy that would have meant the end of her life - medical panels, waiting, etc.

    if it is happening, I would imagne they'd be treated as any other live being. I think there always has to be an option to terminate pregnancies because backyard jobs will always cause more harm to women and their babies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Does it happen though? I really find it hard to believe that medical staff would hand them out willy nilly, I remember the drama a friend of mine went though when she had to terminate a wanted pregnancy that would have meant the end of her life - medical panels, waiting, etc.

    if it is happening, I would imagne they'd be treated as any other live being. I think there always has to be an option to terminate pregnancies because backyard jobs will always cause more harm to women and their babies.
    I do agree the vast majority are for good reason. I also know someone that had a late term bc the baby may well have killed her, it was that serious. She was completely devastated, and her medical condition was real. I didn't judge her one bit, all I felt was immense sorrow and empathy for her. It was her one and only chance to be a mum and that is gone, and I feel teary even thinking about it

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    So Sassy, are you saying that even if a baby was perfectly healthy and capable of sustaining life outside of its mother, she would still have the right to end its life while it was inside her body?

    Because I disagree. Even if she has the right to say "I don't want to carry this baby any longer", I don't believe that should extend to making the call about whether the baby lives or dies.
    Yeah I do. It's not something I would do. I don't think I could terminate a healthy foetus if I knew it could stand a chance outside of my body. I'd still have to give birth to it in some way or another, much like I would if it were full term (as opposed to an early termination)... and while I'd never want to go through with adoption, I feel like that would be a much better option than me having a termination when the baby could jsut survive and later be adopted out (potentially - it might not even make it at 24 weeks).

    BUT... I also think that this my opinion based on my own beliefs and personal ethics. I don't expect anyone else to feel this way just because I do. So yeah, I guess I do support women being able to terminate at any stage during pregnancy, even if I don't agree with or understand why someone would (other than for medical reasons, of course).

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    I do agree the vast majority are for good reason. I also know someone that had a late term bc the baby may well have killed her, it was that serious. She was completely devastated, and her medical condition was real. I didn't judge her one bit, all I felt was immense sorrow and empathy for her. It was her one and only chance to be a mum and that is gone, and I feel teary even thinking about it
    That makes me teary and I don't even know this person


 

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