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  1. #121
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Littlemissellie View Post
    Also the abortion could cause the 14 yr old more emotional and possibly physical damage than carrying the child. That child is still part of its mother. Just cause the father is a rapist doesnt make the baby less of a part of the 14 year old mother. Because the baby is a product of a rape doesnt mean the mother will despise the child or not be able to love it. How can you say for sure that an abortion would be the lesser of two evils?

    Abortion can scar for life, and it does. Ive seen threads on this forum where people have admitted that the guilt eats away at them years and years later
    I'm not suggesting the 14 year old girl *should* have an abortion, my view is that a safe abortion should be available to her without judgement or hindrance. Of course there is every chance she may wish to keep the baby in which case she should receive love and support.

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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    So you think women who have consensual sex and fall pregnant should not be able to access lta. What about the other thousands (?) of females that fall pregnant due to unconsensual sex should they be forced to continue a pregnancy simply because they found out too late?
    Like I said, I am pro choice. I don't have a problem with people having terminations early in a pregnancy. But I can't fathom late term abortions. They are not a mass of cells. They are a fully formed tiny little human.

    But if your comment was aimed at mine about using terminations for birth control, then I don't mean failed contraception or rape. I mean women who don't use any form of BC and have termination after termination after termination. I might be pro-choice, but that also doesn't sit right with me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Californication View Post
    Like I said, I am pro choice. I don't have a problem with people having terminations early in a pregnancy. But I can't fathom late term abortions. They are not a mass of cells. They are a fully formed tiny little human.

    But if your comment was aimed at mine about using terminations for birth control, then I don't mean failed contraception or rape. I mean women who don't use any form of BC and have termination after termination after termination. I might be pro-choice, but that also doesn't sit right with me.
    I can understand this last comment, i find it hard to swallow when women have abortion after abortion. I totally get that its the woman's choice and her body, and i'd never say anything otherwise but it personally saddens me. I know someone (married) who has had 3 abortions since the end of last year, all because they were accidents because she is careless with contraception. I don't know how on earth you can have 3 accidents. I try to be as supportive as i can but she pretty much uses it as birth control...

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Riddle me this... How does full body autonomy allow you to determine the fate of a baby once it's out if your body? The notion of full body autonomy may allow a woman to choose to expel a baby from her body, but when others of the same gestation are being given every chance in the NICU, why shouldn't they be afforded the same chance?

    I am completely pro-choice, but I don't believe this extends to determining the fate of a viable baby.
    I absolutely feel this way too.


    I find it disgusting how women and young girls who found themselves in these situations were treated in the past. The way society and the church shunned these girls rather than support them, presume to know what's best for them.... it was such an ignorant and patriarchic world back then.

    I am pro-choice but can't really get my head around late-term abortion of otherwise viable foetuses/babies.

    I absolutely agree a viable foetus should be given every chance at survival once removed from the mothers body.

    I think it's important to remember that late-term abortions are very rare - it seems even in Canada - who Is one of the only countries in the world who have no laws against abortion - only 0.4% of all abortions are performed after 20 weeks, and of those 0.4 most are for life-threatening medical reasons.

  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I agree with every point you make Sassy

    My only issue with late term abortion remains the fact that in theory we are talking about a self-sustaining child, and I don't believe a woman's right to bodily autonomy extends to determining that child's fate once they're no longer in her body.
    This sums it up for me too. If the baby is self-sustaining, if it was a wanted prem it would be up to both parents to make the decisions in relation to its life, yet if it's an LTA it's up to the mother alone. I just can't make sense of it all. I don't like for one minute the idea of a woman being forced to carry an unwanted baby, but I can't reconcile that against the termination of a baby that might have survived. Sorry, I just can't, and I'm incredibly glad that it's a position I'll never be in.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I agree with every point you make Sassy

    My only issue with late term abortion remains the fact that in theory we are talking about a self-sustaining child, and I don't believe a woman's right to bodily autonomy extends to determining that child's fate once they're no longer in her body.
    Oh yeah same here.

    Once a baby is born, it should be granted the exact same rights as any other baby that's been born.

    Termination doesn't involve birthing a live baby then killing it though right (other than that "partial birth abortion," thing, which is not the same as actual birth IMO anyway)? Genuine question, just cos it's been mentioned a few times.

    I think if a termination is botched and a women gives birth to a living baby, then it needs to be treated like any other baby born, and be taken care of properly. Once it exits her body, it's not longer about bodily autonomy. The woman should absolutely sue the doctor for not doing what he was supposed to do (terminate), but the baby needs to be treated like every other human at that point. To think a baby could be birthed alive, and then killed because the mother never wanted it... well, that's just the same as a mother killing her 12 month old really and saying, "Yeah, well, I never really wanted it anyway..."

    That's where I personally draw the line in the sand. A baby out of the mothers body, and it's no longer her choice. The baby is no longer using her body to survive and the baby is as much of a human as every other human.

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  8. #127
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    Default Interesting true story on Abortion in VIC on ABC

    But it kind of is the mother's choice, as the baby's parent, to consent (or not consent) to any medical treatment for the baby, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shelle65 View Post
    But it kind of is the mother's choice, as the baby's parent, to consent (or not consent) to any medical treatment for the baby, no?
    Hmm, that brings us into the acts versus omissions doctrine, the active versus passive euthanasia bioethics debate. This is where late-term abortion gets sketchy for me.... It diesnt apply to abortion, just live births (?) not sure... That's a whole other debate

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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    Oh yeah same here.

    Once a baby is born, it should be granted the exact same rights as any other baby that's been born.

    Termination doesn't involve birthing a live baby then killing it though right (other than that "partial birth abortion," thing, which is not the same as actual birth IMO anyway)? Genuine question, just cos it's been mentioned a few times.

    I think if a termination is botched and a women gives birth to a living baby, then it needs to be treated like any other baby born, and be taken care of properly. Once it exits her body, it's not longer about bodily autonomy. The woman should absolutely sue the doctor for not doing what he was supposed to do (terminate), but the baby needs to be treated like every other human at that point. To think a baby could be birthed alive, and then killed because the mother never wanted it... well, that's just the same as a mother killing her 12 month old really and saying, "Yeah, well, I never really wanted it anyway..."

    That's where I personally draw the line in the sand. A baby out of the mothers body, and it's no longer her choice. The baby is no longer using her body to survive and the baby is as much of a human as every other human.
    Yep I get that but my point is IF the baby was born and not aborted it might survive. That's what I find difficult to comprehend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shelle65 View Post
    But it kind of is the mother's choice, as the baby's parent, to consent (or not consent) to any medical treatment for the baby, no?
    If a 6 month old is taken to A&E and the parents are told they have to operate/use intervention to save the baby's life, and the parent refused, based on the fact they never really wanted the child (or any reason) they would be facing DoCS involvement. If the baby died as a result of their refusal, there would be an inquest and possible criminal charges.


 

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