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  1. #81
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    Clearly me and one other member are the only ones who don't see it all as as black and white as we think. There is a grey area and it's this grey area that plays on my mind on occasion...less so now that things are improving on the home front. But it still plays on my mind, like when I see posts and things that brings it to the forefront of my thoughts.

    I just wanted to know if others recognise the greys or if it's just me...clearly it is just me and I feel awfully 'odd' now...like the odd one out and now I'm tryin to figure out why it is that I feel that way.

    Without all the variables (martial arts, speed etc) I fear more for a woman than I do a man if it ever came down to man vs woman. I do. I can't help but feel that way. Clearly I'm quite alone in that as others think it's all equal ...a hit for a hit etc. I don't.

    Oh well...thanks for the discussion anyways

  2. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by BbBbBh View Post
    I look at intent. What is the intention of each child? It sounds like to me your son is using his strength to overpower and keep his little sister 'in her place'. He is not trying to even the playing field, he's trying to dominate it. The intent of your daughter sounds like 'hey you may be older but i'm here and I want to be even'.
    Ok yes...this is good. I think you've articulated my thoughts here. This has been my issue I think. I do believe that my daughter feels quite powerless and that hitting my son is her only sense of power she has...as wrong as it is...it is what it is, her only form of power.

    Neither should be hitting each other but your punishment should not be seen to be different to either of them.
    I try not too, but it's hard though because I'm having to restrain him, while she's in the corner crying and in obvious fear. It's then hard to turn around to punish a child who is cowering in the corner and who has clearly already been 'punished'. (My punishments are generally taking away of priviledges but how can you take away tv time or whatever from a child who is obviously in distressed and in fear of her older brother?)

    I would be talking to your son about his intentions/respect for others rather than talking to him about him being stronger- it may just reinforce his belief about his strength and how it is to be used. If you have a positive male role model around it may be good for them to also back up what you say in a different discussion about healthy relationships and respect for women.
    Yes doing this...and seems to be improving. However I do mention strength because I think it's important too to know your own strength when it comes to these things.

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    I think people recognise that there is something of a grey area. What they dont seem to agree with is different treatment for a man who hits a woman to a woman who hits a man.

    You're saying penalties should be harsher for a man who abuses a woman than for a woman who abuses a man. And an attitude like that probably goes a long way to explaining why some men feel female on male abuse isn't taken seriously enough in society.

    How can men feel that their abuse by women is taken seriously when people actually suggest he's to be held accountable when she abuses him first?

    This whole post was a bit weird, sorry. Im sorry you're dealing with this with your kids, it can't be easy. But it reads like you're just annoyed now because you didn't get the responses you wanted.

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    And I Fo think the first few posts you had here were a bit misleading. I think dealing with children in this situation, which seems to be what it was alk about, is different than all the stuff you were saying about massive adult samoans and tiny.adult women?.

  5. #85
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    I honestly can't equate a 9 and 13 year old with adults.

    These are children, they have immature brains and impulse control and they need guidance and consequences. They both sound very angry and I can't imagine how hard this must be for you.

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  7. #86
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    I try not too, but it's hard though because I'm having to restrain him, while she's in the corner crying and in obvious fear. It's then hard to turn around to punish a child who is cowering in the corner and who has clearly already been 'punished'. (My punishments are generally taking away of priviledges but how can you take away tv time or whatever from a child who is obviously in distressed and in fear of her older brother?)
    Yeh but you still have to punish her for hitting because this is one of the rules. Yes she may have copped it from her brother but she still broke a rule. I don't believe that punishment works. I feel that kids can earn privileges like tv time. If your dd wakes up every morning with 30 minutes of tv privilege that she can use in the evening then she is more likely to 'look after it'. If dd hits her brother then she loses 15 minutes. If dd doesn't empty the dishwasher when asked she loses another 15 minutes.

    I agree it would be hard to have to restrain him. It does sound like he is copying your ex and has beliefs that men are superior therefore are allowed to use strength over women to prove it. Maybe ask him about his beliefs. Get into his head but don't try to correct them. Let him talk and tell you. At least then you'll know where he's coming from and his reasoning.

  8. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by WineTime View Post
    I think people recognise that there is something of a grey area. What they dont seem to agree with is different treatment for a man who hits a woman to a woman who hits a man.

    You're saying penalties should be harsher for a man who abuses a woman than for a woman who abuses a man. And an attitude like that probably goes a long way to explaining why some men feel female on male abuse isn't taken seriously enough in society.
    No not quite. I believe that reasonable force should be considered. For instance if a woman hits her husband's arm and leaves a red mark, and the husband reaction is to hit her arm and leave a red mark..fine (but it rarely is). But if his reaction is to hit her in the jaw and break her jaw, causing her to have to drink out of a straw for months on end and endure surgery after surgery after surgery, then I think there should be harsher penalties for him yes. Because where she hit and caused a red arm, obviously because of her size, strength and her capabilities would mean that that's probably all she could muster anyway...yes it's wrong and all that...it was MORE WRONG for a man who is stronger, bigger and is capable of really hurting her to hit her and causing a long standing injuring. That's what I think. I think the same if it were vice versa, which it rarely is, but lets say for argument's sake a man hits a woman in the arm and leaves a red mark, and the woman's a black belt in karate and took his knees out, resulting in him needing reconstructive surgery then I think he's in the wrong but she's MORE in the wrong because clearly she had the capabilities to really hurt him thereby making it imbalanced.

    How can men feel that their abuse by women is taken seriously when people actually suggest he's to be held accountable when she abuses him first?
    Well he's got a lot more of a chance at convincing them than she does with a broken jaw!

    This whole post was a bit weird, sorry. Im sorry you're dealing with this with your kids, it can't be easy. But it reads like you're just annoyed now because you didn't get the responses you wanted.
    Sorry you felt it was weird. I've seen weirder though, I'm sure you have too. And yes I am annoyed that I didn't get the responses I EXPECTED. Actually probably more perplexed than anything. I hazard a guess people answered at the cuff though, without actually thinking about what I was actually saying first, and admittedly probably I would have too if I was a respondee.

    So yeh I'm annoyed. Oh well...that's life! I'll just carry on my way in my weirdness

  9. #88
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    Weird was the wrong word, so I shouldn't have said that. I think its more that smoothing the two adults beating on each other together with your children being violent with each other in the one topic but not being clear about it at the beginning has muddied the issue.

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  11. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by BbBbBh View Post
    Yeh but you still have to punish her for hitting because this is one of the rules. Yes she may have copped it from her brother but she still broke a rule.
    I know and had her brother come to me and told me "Hey she hit me" then yes 100%...but he took it into his own hands and punished her himself. I feel that if I was to punish her on top of that it would add insult to injury.

    I don't believe that punishment works. I feel that kids can earn privileges like tv time. If your dd wakes up every morning with 30 minutes of tv privilege that she can use in the evening then she is more likely to 'look after it'. If dd hits her brother then she loses 15 minutes. If dd doesn't empty the dishwasher when asked she loses another 15 minutes.
    Well that's still punishment And yes it does work...for everything else LOL Just not for this particular thing because I think it's goes beyond disobedience and more into what you said before about balancing the playing field, which requires a different tactic, which is what I've had to turn to unfortunately.

    I agree it would be hard to have to restrain him. It does sound like he is copying your ex and has beliefs that men are superior therefore are allowed to use strength over women to prove it. Maybe ask him about his beliefs. Get into his head but don't try to correct them. Let him talk and tell you. At least then you'll know where he's coming from and his reasoning.
    Good advice there. No I haven't actually asked him what he thinks. So far mine and my husband's discussions about respect for women do seem to be having an affect on him so far, and perhaps asking him could be the next step? I do know that my hubby does ask him "What would you do if you saw me hitting on your mother...would that be ok?" and he's answered with no it's not that he'd try to defend me and call the police...so he does know that it's wrong, but yes asking what he actually thinks about it would probably get him thinking more.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WineTime View Post
    Weird was the wrong word, so I shouldn't have said that. I think its more that smoothing the two adults beating on each other together with your children being violent with each other in the one topic but not being clear about it at the beginning has muddied the issue.
    Maybe...but see I, like most other people, see abuse as abuse. Hitting is wrong...I don't care if you're male or female or child or whatever, it's wrong. But I was trying to explore why I feel there is a different reaction in me when there is a difference in the balance of power...whether it be with two children or two adults. In my case it's two children, but it also could easily be in two adults and my reaction would be the same....balance of power is different, the person with the greater power has more ability to injure.


 
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