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  1. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by MagicMud View Post
    I agree with Delirium, your son sounds like he is inciting a reaction from your daughter, and when she does react, WHOOP, it's a$$ kicking time! So in this instance, I think her punishment (getting belted) is punishment enough (given that she didn't just randomly go up and hit him out of the blue).

    I think the issue you are trying to raise is the concept of overkill (undue force)? Perhaps that's getting lost in the discussion somewhere, or confused with gender stereotyping, or something.
    But essentially (I assume) what you are trying to explore is whether or not it's justifiable to react in a situation to the fullest extent of someones power.
    I think this is definitely a grey area, and would have many variables to consider.

    In my personal opinion, physical strength is just as much of a weapon as is a gun or knife. And whether you are male or female, child or adult, if you react to being slapped (for instance) by beating someone into a coma, then that is overkill and unreasonable (perhaps with the exception where there has been ongoing abuse or torment from the other side)
    Oh somebody please give this chick a medal!!!

    You are freakin awesome! Why I couldn't have explained it as well as you can from the beginning I'll never know!

    It IS exactly what I'm saying...abuse is abuse but there IS a grey area to consider that no one seems to be open to consider. I used my children as an example...then people run with that for all it's worth instead of discussing what I really wanted to discusss which is this undue force thing.

    I get the impression that a woman who is in hospital nursing a broken jaw is just as wrong as the guy sitting around laughing and chatting with his friends saying 'Oh she hit me first'. Quite frankly this type of mentality where it is believed she deserved it because she hit first...is quite scary. And to know that the law views it the same way, kinda makes me feel a bit better about my own feelings on the subject.

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  3. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I'm fairly sure it does take into account someone's physical strength when it comes to "fighting back".

    it's not always as clear cut as "fighting is bad mmmkay" because there are imbalances between people re strenght/size etc. example, imagine a son and father getting into a physical fight - dad is a boxer, boy is a skinny nerd. They altercate, skinny nerd hits dad in the face, dad hits son back. Of course dad will cause more damage and should have a responsibility to react without going overboard.

    I am also pretty sure that when there is damage done and there is enough evidence to suggest a partner has done it, the police can charge even without the victim pressing charges. This is what I was told anyway when I recently witnessed a fight involving both men and women, with large sticks. The joys of working on in the city.
    Oh ok...yes this is what I'm saying. But is the other person still seen as being 'in the wrong' though?

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    Default Re: Differences in 'abuse'.

    Des, what MM said is VERY different to what you said- gender has nothing to do with it, but in your mind, your OP and subsequent posts, suggests that there is a difference deending on what the gender of the perpetrator is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    Oh ok...yes this is what I'm saying. But is the other person still seen as being 'in the wrong' though?
    Well I would think in some cases yes. Like recently a woman stabbed her partner who was beating the shiz out of her, he followed her into the kitchen after she tried to get away. So she grabbed a knife and stabbed him, immediately after she had realised what she had done, she called an ambulance..immediate remorse etc.

    the judge acknowledged she was acting purely out of self defense but she had to serve some time anyway for manslaughter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    I'm not sure if it qualifies as gaslighting but this is a common technique used by abusers, especially against females.

    my ex used to push and push and push me, then we would be out in public and he would make a snide remark about something he had hounded me about for the past month, so I'd lose it and tell him "WOULD YOU JUST SHUT UP ABOUT THAT" then all of a sudden "see, she's CRAZY, what a loonie, she just lost it at me when I just asked a question" *polishes halo*

    sounds to me like the brother in this scenario is looking for a reaction, so will push her until she eventually snaps.
    Yeh I think it would be gaslighting. Couldn't remember the word, but yeh the whole pick pick pick pick then when the person explodes..."See...look what she did". Yeh that's what he's doing. He is just so in her face all the time...and yes she does hit him, because that's all she's got. Like an animal backed into a corner who lashes out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Well I would think in some cases yes. Like recently a woman stabbed her partner who was beating the shiz out of her, he followed her into the kitchen after she tried to get away. So she grabbed a knife and stabbed him, immediately after she had realised what she had done, she called an ambulance..immediate remorse etc.

    the judge acknowledged she was acting purely out of self defense but she had to serve some time anyway for manslaughter.
    Yeh ...everyone does though. Even if you accidently hit someone in your car. But what if she'd turned around and hit him and didn't cause any damage...would she still be in the wrong?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    Des, what MM said is VERY different to what you said- gender has nothing to do with it, but in your mind, your OP and subsequent posts, suggests that there is a difference deending on what the gender of the perpetrator is.

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    Sometimes it does though...Testosterone plays a major part in one's strength and aggression and really it's the only thing (other than the obvious) that differentiates male from female. It's what gives men more strength and aggression is this testosterone thing. In most cases the balance is different because the genders are different...I say most because obviously in boxing you've got featherweight and heavyweight catagories. Why is that do you think? Is it because they recognise, in the sport that although a punch is a punch that weight and strength play a huge part in what's equal and what's not. Men are almost always bigger than stronger than women...so I can't help that in most cases I do see that the majore difference is gender.

    Call me wrong if you like but, in my mind, it is most likely the balance of power does favour the male in almost all DV situations.

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    Default Re: Differences in 'abuse'.

    Of course there is a grey area, but (putting the example of your children aside - I'm not too sure why you brought that up if you didn't want others to discuss it) a female hitting or hurting a male is still abuse.
    I think far too many people assume and believe that just because a male is bigger or stronger he will use that to his advantage when that is quite stereotypical and not always the case.

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  12. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrstuilawa View Post
    Of course there is a grey area, but (putting the example of your children aside - I'm not too sure why you brought that up if you didn't want others to discuss it) a female hitting or hurting a male is still abuse.
    I think far too many people assume and believe that just because a male is bigger or stronger he will use that to his advantage when that is quite stereotypical and not always the case.

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    Maybe it's not always the case but have we even see where a male has NOT used his size and strength to his advantage or furthermore maybe not known his own strength perhaps?

    And yes it could be two males...one bigger and stronger than the other...or two females or the female being stronger than the male (which I find is very very rare) but I just want to know if people still see it as wrong...if the weaker hits then the stronger hits back but causes damage. Or where there are two people and one is clearly bigger and stronger than the other , which is most like male/female....is it then fair to hold the stronger bigger person to the same standards as the weaker? Bearing in mind that the consequences are different?

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    Default Re: Differences in 'abuse'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deserama View Post
    Maybe it's not always the case but have we even see where a male has NOT used his size and strength to his advantage or furthermore maybe not known his own strength perhaps?

    And yes it could be two males...one bigger and stronger than the other...or two females or the female being stronger than the male (which I find is very very rare) but I just want to know if people still see it as wrong...if the weaker hits then the stronger hits back but causes damage. Or where there are two people and one is clearly bigger and stronger than the other , which is most like male/female....is it then fair to hold the stronger bigger person to the same standards as the weaker? Bearing in mind that the consequences are different?
    If you read one of my previous posts I told the story of how my husband was physically abused by his ex wife and has scars on his face and plenty of mental scars to go with the physical ones. He never laid a hand on her yet she would claw at his face, hit him, push him over and threaten to stab him. So to make the assumption that cases like this don't exist is very close minded. Whilst it may be the minority and not the majority dh and I have to suffer the consequences for the rest of our lives because of what she did to him. Oh and in answer to your size question, she was taller and fatter than him. Dh has trained in various martial arts since a young age but he never used it against her even though she was abusing him.

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