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  1. #11
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    Hmm not really... I don't expect people to agree with my opinion on things. Though I suppose I can kind of liken it to speaking to people uneducated about say, homebirth, and spouting off about how dangerous & irresponsible it is. So yep, I can definitely see why you are frustrated with it.
    I don't know why people (IRL that is) feel such a need to be so vocal about such a personal decision... I guess if they feel it is actually dangerous, they may be worried about other people's kids - but they need to be open to discussion on such a "hot" topic! Otherwise I just wouldn't bother talking about any subject, really, if you're not respected & heard.

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  3. #12
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    I don't tell them that their opinions are wrong in regards to autism links (even though I don't believe there are any) or things like that because that's neither proven right or wrong) but when they say ALL vaccines contain aborted fetus cells, to scare monger a new mum, I will say that's wrong. For one, there are only three vaccines that are accused of having aborted fetus cells linked to them, of which none of them actually do.

    The difference between me, personally, and every anti-vax person that *I* have dealt with is that I realise the difference between fact and opinion/theory whereas they tend to pass their opinion off as fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Meh I take more of an each to their own approach. I would just say I disagreed and leave it at that. IMO though if you're going to argue with them then be prepared for them to say what they want to say regardless of whether you agree or not.

    I do agree that it can be hard to hear someone say what you believe is completely wrong. Try not to own their opinion though it won't get you anywhere! I find saying I hear you saying xyz but I disagree works well.
    Last edited by atomicmama; 11-10-2012 at 12:59.

  4. #13
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    Yes, I do find it hard. I am pro-vaxxing and perhaps a bit judgmental about the whole thing. To me, it's like trying to have a conversation with someone who doesn't agree that 2+2=4.

    So I can understand why someone who is anti-vax would not find me a great conversation partner on this topic! But it isn't because we disagree, it's more because I find it hard to be polite and also say what I think. I'm sure they feel my judgment and that leads to defensiveness, which also makes me defensive of my position.

    We're all human and I guess it's always hard to have an open discussion on a topic that you're not really open about. Sorry anti-vaxxers!

  5. #14
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    Yes I do find it difficult, mostly because most of them spout such c**p about vaccines and the diseases they protect against. Such as, I was at the park the other week and I overheard a mum telling another mum how she doesn't vaccinate because the risks outweigh the benefits. Her reasoning was that vpd's weren't very serious, ie whooping cough was 'only' a cough for a few weeks. *sigh*

    The reason I get so riled up is that these people are convincing others not to vaccinate, using false scare tactics. And that impacts on all of us. To compare to a homebirth, while I disagree with high risk homebirth, if someone wants to do it and it turns out badly it is only them that are effected not the community at large as with vaccinations.

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  7. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by 4underfour View Post
    Yes I do find it difficult, mostly because most of them spout such c**p about vaccines and the diseases they protect against. Such as, I was at the park the other week and I overheard a mum telling another mum how she doesn't vaccinate because the risks outweigh the benefits. Her reasoning was that vpd's weren't very serious, ie whooping cough was 'only' a cough for a few weeks. *sigh*

    The reason I get so riled up is that these people are convincing others not to vaccinate, using false scare tactics. And that impacts on all of us. To compare to a homebirth, while I disagree with high risk homebirth, if someone wants to do it and it turns out badly it is only them that are effected not the community at large as with vaccinations.
    just a cough?! oh my god I wish I could introduce her to my friend who spent over a month in hospital with her bub who had whooping cough. I don't get how people can think that way?! Whooping cough kills... simple as that.

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    I've tried to word my reply a few different ways, but each time I think I'm likely to offend those who don't vaccinate.

    I guess the best way I can put it is that it is difficult to argue from a logical/ rational/ scientific viewpoint when the other party is not basing their argument on logic/ science.

    I see it as a bit like debating evolution, homeopathy, or astrology. If someone holds a strong belief that has no basis in scientific evidence then you can't debate it from a scientific point of view, as you'll end up frustrated and getting nowhere.

    I'm not sure what the answer is, as I believe it to be very important that we keep up herd immunity. The reemergence of VPDs is an awful thing, and to see pockets of these diseases springing up in areas where vaccinating happens less, is a tragedy.

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  10. #17
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    Theophania is offline 'see what had happened was..there were these three ninjas and a blue monkey and well it really wasn't my fault..'
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    TBH OP I find it harder to have a respectful calm conversation with people who do belive in vaccinating. I have vaccinated my children, that was my choice, but I respect that some parents choose not to. Thats their right and I see nothing wrong with it.

    But most people iI know who do believe in vaccinating carry on and spout off about why anti-vaxers are this that and the other...

    It has already been demonstrated in this thread... Just depends what side of the fence you sit on I guess...

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  12. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theophania View Post
    TBH OP I find it harder to have a respectful calm conversation with people who do belive in vaccinating. I have vaccinated my children, that was my choice, but I respect that some parents choose not to. Thats their right and I see nothing wrong with it.

    But most people iI know who do believe in vaccinating carry on and spout off about why anti-vaxers are this that and the other...

    It has already been demonstrated in this thread... Just depends what side of the fence you sit on I guess...
    Yeah that's fine, it is their right. But the op asked specifically about debating the issues surrounding vaccinations. So we can respect that it is their right not to vax, but I maintain that it is often impossible to have any sort of logical debate about it. Girl X described it well.

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  14. #19
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    That is true for *some* pro vax people, but in my experiences the only thing they say that is wrong is "your non-vaxed child will make my vaxed child sick" and I tend to correct them with "no, it can make your baby that is not yet able to be vaxed or someone with a compromised immunity ie. disabled/elderly/ill person sick" and every time I have said that they have retracted their comment and admitted that their original comment didn't really make sense... Whereas I have found that every anti-vax person that I have talked to about the subject is 'right' even when they're really not, refusing to ever admit that there is no genuine basis for some of their reasonings.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theophania View Post
    TBH OP I find it harder to have a respectful calm conversation with people who do belive in vaccinating. I have vaccinated my children, that was my choice, but I respect that some parents choose not to. Thats their right and I see nothing wrong with it.

    But most people iI know who do believe in vaccinating carry on and spout off about why anti-vaxers are this that and the other...

    It has already been demonstrated in this thread... Just depends what side of the fence you sit on I guess...

  15. #20
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    Theophania is offline 'see what had happened was..there were these three ninjas and a blue monkey and well it really wasn't my fault..'
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    Quote Originally Posted by MummaHan View Post
    That is true for *some* pro vax people, but in my experiences the only thing they say that is wrong is "your non-vaxed child will make my vaxed child sick" and I tend to correct them with "no, it can make your baby that is not yet able to be vaxed or someone with a compromised immunity ie. disabled/elderly/ill person sick" and every time I have said that they have retracted their comment and admitted that their original comment didn't really make sense... Whereas I have found that every anti-vax person that I have talked to about the subject is 'right' even when they're really not, refusing to ever admit that there is no genuine basis for some of their reasonings.
    Thats fair enough, I was just sharing MY experience with this subject. I have never had a non-vaxer feel the need to educate me, but I have come acress alot of people pro vax who when they hear that I support a parents right to choose feel the need to harp on about why people should vax etc etc..

    But if someone chooses not to vax they have usually done their own research that makes them comfortable with their choices and perhaps are attacked for their choices and feel the need to defend themselves or educate others because THEY believe its better not to vax.. and likewise some people are very passionately provax and also cannot be reasoned with or budged on their beliefs... I just don't see the difference...


 

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