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  1. #21
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    With the whole, put up for adoption option, I don't think it's about doing that so you can give a baby to someone else at all. It's more another option for the baby, rather than terminating it, deciding to carry it and give it life and then find another family who want to care for it. Though I really don't know how many women could do that, would be incredibly hard.


    It's not about having babies for those who can't, it's just another alternative to ending the babies' life. Well that's how i see it anyway. I guess it's about doing a selfless thing for the baby, not to make a childless person happy.

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    The authors of Freakonomics made some interesting points regarding abortion.

    Their studies indicated that the availability of abortion reduced 'social ills', and that states (in America) that had higher abortion rates also had lower crime rates, and lower incidences of things like teen drug use and suicide. Interestingly, they also had HIGHER birth rates.

    Their suggestion was that crime rates/ social ills were lower because fewer unwanted children were being brought into the world (often by families that were not in a good position - financially or otherwise - to have them). Also that birth rates were higher because families who had unwanted children often did not go on to have more, whereas families who were able to terminate unwanted pregnancies statistically then went on to have more children (who were wanted) later in life.

    Of course I am paraphrasing and oversimplifying their comments and research.

    There have also been challenges to the research, which the original authors have addressed.

    As someone who is currently going through IVF, I struggle to see blastocysts/ embryos as just cells. However, I also feel that is an emotional response on my part, and potentially an exaggerated one. Either way, I think the social ramifications for increasing the numbers of unwanted children in the world are enough to make me support choice where abortion is concerned.

  3. #23
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    With the whole, put up for adoption option, I don't think it's about doing that so you can give a baby to someone else at all. It's more another option for the baby, rather than terminating it, deciding to carry it and give it life and then find another family who want to care for it. Though I really don't know how many women could do that, would be incredibly hard.


    It's not about having babies for those who can't, it's just another alternative to ending the babies' life. Well that's how i see it anyway. I guess it's about doing a selfless thing for the baby, not to make a childless person happy.
    Asking a woman to contine with an unwanted pregnancy for the life of someone else (either the fetus or another living person) is henious.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Asking a woman to contine with an unwanted pregnancy for the life of someone else (either the fetus or another living person) is henious.
    I think the option should be available to a woman with an unwanted pregnancy but there should be no expectation or suggestion that it's a doable option for the vast majority of women. There is no way I could carry an unwanted pregnancy and then hand over the baby, but I acknowledge it would be the most beautiful, unselfish gift to a couple desperate but unable to have their own child.

    To paraphrase Hitchens, the key to ending mass poverty is to give women control over their reproduction, provide some basic education (including the girls*) and a handful of seeds and come back in a few years and presto, massive difference in the standard of living.

    *Educating the girls can be argued as more important because when girls are educated and then become mothers they educate the family. You educate a girl, you educate a family.

    When we take away women's reproductive rights society just go backwards.

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    Women are given the option of adoption. Nobody might go up to them and say, "Yeah, you know that's an option, right?" but I daresay unless we're severely sheltered, we know that it's an alternative.

    It's just not one many of us want to choose. I wouldn't. If I don't want a baby, it's because I don't want a baby. At all. In my body, coming out of my body, or living elsewhere either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by headoverfeet View Post
    Asking a woman to contine with an unwanted pregnancy for the life of someone else (either the fetus or another living person) is henious.
    um all i said is that it's another option? All i meant was that some women might not want to keep the child, but they might not want to terminate either so it's another option. You've missed my point.

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    I am pro-choice, yes, but I think the article is a bit rubbish.

    The ONLY reason I've ever heard abortion seriously being criticised for is #3. And I don't believe it is just a bunch of cells, it is a baby. The development that a 6,7,8 week old fetus has is remarkable. They have a heartbeat, they have arms and legs. It's not just a collection of cells. Abortion is killing a baby, a very tiny, very undeveloped human being.

    That's not very nice for some people to hear, but it's true. The fact that the baby is so tiny and relies on it's mother's body to keep it alive is what gives the mother the right to say she doesn't want to do that - if she doesn't want to keep the baby alive she can has the right to have an abortion/termination. I see that's the only logical, ethical point of view.
    Last edited by duckduckgoose; 30-09-2012 at 19:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    um all i said is that it's another option? All i meant was that some women might not want to keep the child, but they might not want to terminate either so it's another option. You've missed my point.
    I agree with Clementine. It's also an option for those who find out about their pregnancy later on (20+ weeks) where termination is not an option but they don't want to keep the baby.

  11. #29
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    um all i said is that it's another option? All i meant was that some women might not want to keep the child, but they might not want to terminate either so it's another option. You've missed my point.
    I haven't missed your point. As a pp said women know adoption is an option. I am simply saying that a lot of people will say you should just give it up for adoption when really it's not a solution many woman want to do.

  12. #30
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    It's 24 weeks not 20.
    Quote Originally Posted by wannawannabe View Post
    I agree with Clementine. It's also an option for those who find out about their pregnancy later on (20+ weeks) where termination is not an option but they don't want to keep the baby.


 

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