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    Default Debunking anti-abortion arguments...

    1. Abortion is against the bible!
    No, it isn’t. According to Exodus 21:22 – 25 (American King James) “If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman’s husband will lay on him; and he shall pay as the judges determine. And if any mischief follow, then you shall give life for life, Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe”


    For those of us who do believe in the existence of God, what does this actually mean? Simple: an already existing life, like that of the mother, is worth more than that of a life that as of yet has not come into existence, like that of a fetus. That is why the punishment for causing a miscarriage is only a fine, and the punishment for hurting the mother is an eye for an eye. This means that by forcing a woman to undergo a pregnancy, you are effectively hurting the mother. Should the mother suffer mental anguish, the punishment, according to God would be your own mental anguish. If the mother should die because you forced her to undergo the pregnancy, then the punishment, according to God, would be death. You are committing a heinous crime in the eyes of God by preventing an abortion. For those of us who don’t believe in God, then this argument shouldn’t matter.


    2. Abortion is some racist government plot to keep the minority population down
    Yes, people actually do make that argument. Guess what? Caucasians have abortions too. While minorities did at one point have a higher abortion rate, that can easily be attributed to the disparity between minorities and whites in terms of wealth and access to affordable health care, contraceptives, and education. Abortion rates in general, according to the Guttmacher Institute, are actually going down, and that trend is also represented within minorities due to easier access to birth control, more options, and better public education. This argument would have merit if there was encouragement for minorities to have abortions not white women. Fortunately, there is no credible evidence that institutional abortions are actually encouraged.

    3. Life begins at conception!
    Conception occurs when a sperm cell fertilizes an ova, or egg. Sperm and ovum are haploid cells, meaning they contain half the genetic information as a somatic (body) cell, known as a diploid cell. When the two combine during fertilization the resulting new, diploid cell, is called a zygote. This cell undergoes mitosis, or cell division, much like all the other cells in your body. After some divisions, the resulting clump of cells, called a blastocyst, is very generalized; they do not have a set defined purpose yet. Eventually they form into brain cells, skin cells, bone marrow, and all the various cellular structures throughout your body. You are not considered to be committing murder if you give blood or bone marrow, or if you cut yourself and damage some of your skin cells or lose white blood cells, so why are these cells different? Some argue because they have a potential to become a human being. This, of course is true. But that begs the question, if they have the potential to become a human being, but aren’t human beings yet, then how can they be a life? Furthermore, human DNA is made up of various proteins and amino acids that have been found on meteorites and are present in meat. All those amino acids and proteins have the potential to one day combine into some sort of life. Why are those not protected?


    4. Abortion causes pain to the fetus
    There is at this point insufficient evidence proving or disproving the theory that a fetus feels pain at any stage of development. It is incredibly unlikely that first or second trimester abortions cause an embryo or fetus pain, since the nervous system does not actually fully develop to the point where there is a recognizable nervous system until gestational week 9. At this point, the option for a chemical abortion (using the drug mifepristone) becomes unviable, and surgical abortions such as D&C (dilation and curettage, up until the 16th week of pregnancy), or D&E (dilation and evacuation, used following 16 weeks gestation). Surgical abortions generally need anaesthesia. Since anaesthetic drugs do pass through the placenta, assuming a fetus could actually feel pain at this point, it would also be anesthetized, and therefore, much like an adult undergoing anaesthesia, unable to feel pain anyway.


    5. Abortion increases your risk of breast cancer
    Not according to the American Cancer Society. Coming from a scientific background, it is safe to say that there has been no credible study linking the two. While some studies have shown a correlation, they were fundamentally flawed through either a far too small sample group, or because they relied on “self-reporting.” Since abortion is such a taboo subject, many women are reluctant to admit to having one, making self-reports a flawed method of collecting data.


    6. Abortion causes suicidal behaviors and thoughts in the woman, or other mental health issues.
    Again, this is bad science –there is a correlation between mental health issues and abortions, especially multiple abortions, but this does not prove causation. Generally speaking, unwanted pregnancies cause undue stress in and of themselves and can act as triggers for dormant mental illnesses. In the case of multiple abortions, generally speaking most women who find themselves undergoing multiple abortions have preëxisting mental illnesses that put them at a higher risk of unwanted pregnancy. People suffering from substance abuse disorders, victims of sexual assault or abuse, or other groups of “vulnerable” women are more likely to have difficulties using birth control properly. Furthermore, many abortions are not the result of an unwanted pregnancy, but the result of a wanted pregnancy gone awry — birth defects, genetic illnesses, or death of the embryo or fetus without expulsion are some of the many reasons a wanted pregnancy may result in termination — the struggles of losing a wanted fetus is often difficult, especially if there are comorbid fertility issues as well. Again, it is important to remember that correlation does not equal causation, especially when there are plenty of variables that are ignored in trying to draw favorable conclusions.


    7. Abortion causes Toxic Shock Syndrome
    Generally speaking, Toxic Shock Syndrome following a legal abortion done by a qualified professional presents an extremely low risk.TSS occurs by a bacterial toxin called Staphylococcus aureus. The issue with TSS and abortions results mainly from non-sterile conditions, and can also be caused by the incomplete expulsion of fetal matter. This was of much concern, along with haemorrhage back when abortions were illegal and women had to result to back room abortions by less than qualified practitioners. The risk of contracting TSS is extremely low in modern-day abortions.


    8. They pour acid into your uterus during an abortion!
    This one is actually true — or it was, in the 1800s. Modern day techniques do not use of acid.


    9. Abortion affects future pregnancies by increasing your risk of sterility / ectopic pregnancies / placenta previa /placental abruption
    There is no scientific link between an abortion done by a qualified professional and infertility, ectopic pregnancies, placenta previa (when the placenta attaches over the cervix), or placental abruption (when the placenta comes away from the uterine wall). Again, this is bad science and misinformation. Many women have gone on to have relatively normal pregnancies free of complications following an abortion. The decision a woman makes in response to an unwanted pregnancy is hers and hers alone to make. It can sometimes be extremely difficult to navigate through the propaganda in order to come to that decision. It is incredibly important that a woman is fully aware of the facts before making a decision that can be life-changing. Informed consent is essential to any procedure, and it is important that women are presented with genuine fact as opposed to misinformation.


    http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/08...ion-arguments/

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    I imagine these won't be something any pro-lifers will agree with, or that they can talk around, and tbh, that's fair enough because even if some of those reasons were true, it wouldn't mean a single thing to me.

    If the Bible really did say it is a sin, I wouldn't care. I'm not religious and certainly don't follow any sort of religious scripture.

    If life really did begin at conception or abortion caused pain, I wouldn't be HAPPY that it caused pain, but it wouldn't make me think that abortion should be illegal. Birth causes pain, too. Having a baby you do not want to have, causes pain. Now call me crazy, but I'm much more okay with an unwanted unborn baby be caused temporary physical pain, than an adult, living woman have to live with the ongoing pain her continued pregnancy may cause her. I tend to believe emotional pain is often far worse than physical.

    If breast cancer risks increased with abortion, I wouldn't care either. The risk of cancer seems to be increased by almost everything we do these days, so honestly... I wouldn't continue on with an unwanted pregnancy just because I MIGHT one day get cancer. Could get cancer either way really. Might as well do what I want with my life and risk it, than have a baby I don't want to have just to POTENTIALLY avoid it.

    Etc etc.

    But, I'm fine with abortion and don't believe it should be a dirty word... so I know my thoughts might just shock some.

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    I tried to reply twice today but it kept bugging out. Anyway ..

    I have a question. An honest, genuine question I would like to ask someone against abortion. If someone was 18 weeks pregnant and got told they had advanced stage cancer and their only chance at survival was a termination and radical therapy including chemo and radiotherapy, would that be acceptable reason to terminate?

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    Interesting post.


    I struggle with point 3, where does life begin? I really still don't know the answer. I have 3 frozen embryo's through IVF and i'd find it very hard to destroy them. As someone who just had an ultrasound today, and saw our little almost 8 week bean with a strong beating heart, i often wonder if women had an ultrasound and saw that before they make their decision if it would influence their choice. I still do think every woman should have the choice to terminate for their own reason's though.


    Point number 9, having a d&C does pose a small risk of developing asherman's syndrome. It's a small risk, but it does exist. So there is a chance you can do damage to the uterus that may affect your fertility.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DesperatelySeekingSleep View Post
    I tried to reply twice today but it kept bugging out. Anyway ..

    I have a question. An honest, genuine question I would like to ask someone against abortion. If someone was 18 weeks pregnant and got told they had advanced stage cancer and their only chance at survival was a termination and radical therapy including chemo and radiotherapy, would that be acceptable reason to terminate?
    I am against abortion in cases except where there are severe medical issue involved (ie mothers life is at risk or baby wouldnt survive). I know there are other difficult circumstances but I just can't bring myself to provide wider support for the ending of a babies life.

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    Default Not sure what you hoped to accomplish..

    Op: not sure what you hoped to accomplish by posting this?
    - I haven't really seen these arguments sprouted much on bub hub
    - I'm anti abortion and the arguments are mainly irrelevant to me
    - the article doesn't touch on what I consider to be the most important point: it's wrong to take a life unless a life is at risk. It's this difference in ethics that is at the core of the debate...and it is really hard to debate the issue if people differ on this fundamental point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Op: not sure what you hoped to accomplish by posting this?
    - I haven't really seen these arguments sprouted much on bub hub
    - I'm anti abortion and the arguments are mainly irrelevant to me
    - the article doesn't touch on what I consider to be the most important point: it's wrong to take a life unless a life is at risk. It's this difference in ethics that is at the core of the debate...and it is really hard to debate the issue if people differ on this fundamental point.
    A discussion...it's interesting the ideas behind it.

    If these arguments are mainly irrelevant to you- why post a response at all?

    If you don't find it interesting...then don't post...

    ETA: If you believe it is wrong to take a life then doesn't point 3 apply to your beliefs? When does life actually commence? Conception? In utero development stage? First breath?

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    I have to agree with VicPark, I've been puzzling over the purpose of this post.

    Im pro choice but these arguments would also be largely irrelevant to the people I know who are anti abortion.

    The religious point seems particularly irrelevant as interpreting the bible can be put down to semantics really. Anyone can find anything in the bible to support any point of view, even opposing ones.

    At the end of the day a person who is against abortion is against abortion and they will have their own reasons (some factual, other not) for holding that point of view. Surely they're entitled to that point of view just as I am entitled to mine?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Clementine Grace View Post
    Interesting post.


    I struggle with point 3, where does life begin? I really still don't know the answer. I have 3 frozen embryo's through IVF and i'd find it very hard to destroy them. As someone who just had an ultrasound today, and saw our little almost 8 week bean with a strong beating heart, i often wonder if women had an ultrasound and saw that before they make their decision if it would influence their choice. I still do think every woman should have the choice to terminate for their own reason's though.


    Point number 9, having a d&C does pose a small risk of developing asherman's syndrome. It's a small risk, but it does exist. So there is a chance you can do damage to the uterus that may affect your fertility.
    I think the question 'when life begins' will vary between individuals based on their definition of life/living.

    I struggle with the idea that an embryo is more then cells and the potential of life. I understand that as someone who is been through IVF there would be so much value in the precious cells (and the hope for potential life from the cells).

    That being said, I believe life commences at some point during development in utero...but not sure when...it's tricky to define it exactly...

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I am against abortion in cases except where there are severe medical issue involved (ie mothers life is at risk or baby wouldnt survive). I know there are other difficult circumstances but I just can't bring myself to provide wider support for the ending of a babies life.
    I know a few people IRL that are very against abortion. But I am too scared to ask them this particular scenario as they are very religious and too be honest can't be bothered with the argument. I ask this particular question because I did have a friend who ended up having to terminate for this reason but sadly left her 4 year old orphaned when she lost her battle. She struggled over the idea of terminating because she was catholic and also she did not to be judged by society had she survived, as well as the obvious of terminating the life of her unborn baby of hers and her new husband. I am pro choice because of this and also seeing kids mal-treated and malnourished because they were unwanted yet the mothers saw it as socially unaccepted to abort yet acceptable to pay no attention to or even feed their kids cos they can't be bothered with them.

    Not having a go at all, just explaining my reasons.


 

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