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  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs P View Post
    I am yet to come across a man who has issues with it.
    Really? One of the changes I've noticed in the years I've been discussing this issue on Bubhub is the increase in both the number and passion of men who were circumcised as infants and are "coming out" to talk about their sense of hurt and loss. Many of them feel much more strongly about this than I do (since I'm intact), because for them it's deeply personal sense of violation. Here's an example from someone who's a Bubhub member. But you don't have to look very far to see there are thousands of men now openly talking about their feelings.

    It amazes me that some parents just assume their sons will be happy with a decision to cut off part of their penis. Either that, or they don't care about their child's right to bodily integrity, or they delude themselves into thinking it's a trivial issue.

    I don't get it, and in seven years on this forum no one has ever explained how such a decision can be regarded as ethical.
    Last edited by JohnC; 01-10-2012 at 16:54. Reason: typo

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  3. #52
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    I understand your situation completely, I didn't want my little man to get done but my husband did, I told him exactly the same thing you take him, you clean it etc. in the end he had to have a hernia operation and they did the circumcision at the same time. Where as some of you have found only private docs and hospitals do the procedure in my area Drs do the procedure as well. It doesn't take long to heal, bub didn't seem to be in any pain from the op either. But he gets white stuff in what crevice he has which needs to be cleaned out anyway, same as an uncircumcised bub, so that argument is out the window. From one who has been in the same position, I hope my info helps.

  4. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    Really? One of the changes I've noticed in the years I've been discussing this issue on Bubhub is the increase in both the number and passion of men who were circumcised as infants and are "coming out" to talk about their sense of hurt and loss. Many of them feel much more strongly about this than I do (since I'm intact), because for them it's deeply personal sense of violation. Here's an example from someone who's a Bubhub member. But you don't have to look very far to see there are thousands of men now openly talking about their feelings.

    It amazes me that some parents just assume their sons will be happy with a decision to cut off part of their penis. Either that, or they don't care about their child's right to bodily integrity, or they delude themselves into thinking it's a trivial issue.

    I don't get it, and in seven years on this forum no one has ever explained how such a decision can be regarded as ethical.

    I have my own reasoning to do so based off my family history. I don't appreciate the assumption you've made about me as a parent as well.

  5. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs P View Post
    I have my own reasoning to do so based off my family history. I don't appreciate the assumption you've made about me as a parent as well.
    I said "some parents", whether that includes you is not for me to say.

    Meanwhile, you've neither replied to the ethical issue I've raised about a child's right to bodily integrity, nor corrected your earlier imputation about a lack of negative effect on many, many men. Did you even read the short piece in the link I provided?

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  7. #55
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    and all that the Lorax left here in this mess was a small pile of rocks with the one word...UNLESS
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    I find the statistics interesting as my DSS was done at 10. He asked his mother if he could be done, for aesthetic reasons (to look like his friends supposedly). We were living interstate at the time and only found out the week before he was due to have the procedure. No time to talk to him about other options (eg. waiting as once it's done, it can't be undone), I questioned why a boy of this age would be thinking that he needs to look like his peers when supposedly only such a small percentage of children of that era were done. (this was in 2005).

    At no time was there a discussion with my DSS's father, so I'm not sure where this came from.

  8. #56
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    Interesting story that raises a some issues for parents:
    1. At what age can a boy sensibly make such a decision? I would argue not before the onset of puberty. The penis is a sexual organ (you don't actually need it for urination!), so a judgement can only be made when sexual development has commenced. That means 14 or so.
    2. Boys are very tribal, and it's quite possible that to be like "friends" means one or two of your best mates rather than all the boys in your age group.
    3. We don't allow boys (or girls) to get tattooed before 16 or 18 even with parental consent for a similar reason -- it's irreversible-- so similar reasoning should apply with circumcision.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs P View Post
    I have my own reasons for getting it done and if when he is older he would have preferred to have not been done, feel free to tell me you told me so. I am yet to come across a man who has issues with it.
    Well said Mrs P. You can tell me too John!
    I have come across a few that have had issues with not having it done. Have not met a 'real' person that has said a bad word about it. Maybe they're all just hanging out on Bubhub??? Even then, I don't think I've seen anyone on here either?

    Not that it matters anyway. Anecdotes do not change the facts that in my opinion (and the American Academy of Pediatrics's), the benefits of circumcision outweigh the risks. I have great confidence that my two boys will understand why I made this decision on their behalf when they were infants.

  10. #58
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Err let's not ignore the Royal Australasian College of Physicians statement:

    “After reviewing the currently available evidence, the RACP believes that the frequency of diseases modifiable by circumcision, the level of protection offered by circumcision and the complication rates of circumcision do not warrant routine infant circumcision in Australia and New Zealand.”
    This statement is consistent with many other policies around the world

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  12. #59
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    "Routine". Which is fair enough.
    Cutting the umbilical cord is routine. It happens every time. I don't think that circumcision should be routine. It should be up to the parents. So I agree with that statement.
    It doesn't change the facts that the benefits outweigh the risks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnC View Post
    Meanwhile, you've neither replied to the ethical issue I've raised about a child's right to bodily integrity, nor corrected your earlier imputation about a lack of negative effect on many, many men. Did you even read the short piece in the link I provided?
    This, I have never heard the reply to that either. Probably because there just isn't really a good one?


 
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