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  1. #111
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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by MummaHan View Post
    I was making a comparison ONLY in the sense that all of these are.things that a parent can legally choose, things that other people disagree with.
    Like I said earlier, I don't agree with r.i.c. but I don't go around telling parents that do agree with it that.they're bad people, nor should anyone else!

    It's when people get on the anti-ric train and start throwing around nasty comments, that a lot of people start to discount everything they are saying, even if there is truth to it.
    I'm sure white people in the USA originally thought Martin Luther King Junior was a looney. Now the civil rights movement succeeded he is hailed a hero.

    My point is when something many perceive as 'wrong' is so embedded in there's no point fluffing words. People are going to be sensitive and offended regardless. And Soon enough social change will happen and what they are doing will be banned.
    Last edited by DQ; 01-09-2012 at 09:48.

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  3. #112
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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Thankyou for acknowledging that I am entitled to a belief. That is all I have been asking.
    No one has ever said you weren't entitled to an opinion father. It's just that not many here agree with yours.

  4. #113
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    What about the pro ric people, there are plenty on this site. I don't even usually bother to go onto these threads because they last one second and then closed down.
    But credit where credit is due - both sides can be over the top and vocal about it.


    Quote Originally Posted by MummaHan View Post
    I was making a comparison ONLY in the sense that all of these are.things that a parent can legally choose, things that other people disagree with.
    Like I said earlier, I don't agree with r.i.c. but I don't go around telling parents that do agree with it that.they're bad people, nor should anyone else!

    It's when people get on the anti-ric train and start throwing around nasty comments, that a lot of people start to discount everything they are saying, even if there is truth to it.
    Last edited by DQ; 01-09-2012 at 09:50.

  5. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    - overwhelmingly scientific evidence proves vaccinations have substantial medical benefits.
    Why do parents have the choice then?

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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Why do parents have the choice then?
    Because there is a low risk of adverse affect and the anti vax lobby group is very vocal.

  7. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Because there is a low risk of adverse affect and the anti vax lobby group is very vocal.
    So you don't think that parents should have the choice of this either?

  8. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    So you don't think that parents should have the choice of this either?
    Father there are loads of studies to back the efficacy and safety of vaccines as well as the necessity of having a vast majority of people vaccinated- it's called herd immunity. RIC on the other hand may have some limited benefits but they are benefits that can be obtained through other means- there is no other way to gain the benefits of vaccinations except through having vaccinations.
    Vaccinations benefit the community as a whole and assist in protecting those who cannot be vaccinated due to medical reasons as well as protecting those in a small but vocal minority who choose not to vaccinate.
    Vaccinations and RIC are not really comparable since the benefits of vaccinating far outweigh those of circing. Also vaccinating does not involve the surgical removal of part of a person's body without their consent. Apples vs oranges again.

  9. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Why do parents have the choice then?
    Many reasons. They could have a family history of adverse reactions, they could have a child with an allergy to an ingredient in vaccines, they could have a child with an immune system disorder or some other medical reason. They could have a child that has already had the illness the vaccine is for like say, varicella. Also, we do not live in a nanny state where all parental decisions are legislated. Vaccination is, however, recommend to all parents able to vax their kids by the government and every leading health authority in the world... unlike RIC, which is not recommended en masse, which has health benefits that can be gained through hygiene and safe sex and which lets a parent decide to cut off a functional body part in a surgical operation that has been deemed medically unnecessary.

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  11. #119
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    If you look at the AAP statement and the various CDC papers that fed into it, what is striking is the question they don't ask.

    Why does the US, with highest prevalence of circumcision (79%), also have an incidence of HIV 3-4 times higher than other developed countries, many of which have never practised routine circumcision at all?

    Note that this discrepancy isn't just for the epidemic overall, but also for male heterosexual acquisition, which is 3.5x higher than in Australia, and heterosexual incidence for women, which is 8x higher than in Australia.

    The failure to even pose this question is not just cultural arrogance (though there's plenty of that, too), but a realisation the answer would falsify their predetermined conclusion.

    It should be emphasised, as I noted in my earlier post, that the AAP's conclusion was written for them five years earlier during the April 2007 CDC consultation. To quote from the report of that consultation: "Information about the potential health benefits and risks of MC should be presented to parents considering infant circumcision, and financial barriers to accessing MC should be removed."

    Th AAP task force was "free" to make any other conclusions it liked, as long as they towed the line on "benefits" and, particularly, removing "financial barriers". Their finding on HIV is entirely and soley based on CDC cost-effectiveness study in which, as the abstract states "We assumed 60% efficacy of circumcision in reducing heterosexually-acquired HIV over a lifetime". (emphasis added). In other words, the "evidence" is an assumption that what might be the case in Africa will hold in the US.

    The whole exercise is a sad demonstration of how politics and cultural prejudice has overrun any scientific probity.
    Last edited by JohnC; 01-09-2012 at 14:37. Reason: typo

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  13. #120
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    comparing vaxing to circumcision is def apple's and orange's and silly to compare. Vaxing has an effect on the entire community i.e. if everyone stopped vaxing, then the herd immunity would fade. Circumcision affect only the child who has it done, no other.

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