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  1. #101
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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by SpecialPatrolGroup View Post
    I disagree with many of these comparisons
    Vax - does not remove a part of the childs anatomy
    Ear piercing - is the closest because is a body modification
    Abortion - the child is ex utero for circ, and abortion is (generally ) performed before the fetus is viable but that is a whole other argument
    c-sec - again no part of the childs anatomy is removed or altered.

    I know how nit picky that sounds but i feel the discussion deserves clarity, not tenuos parallels to other proceedure that are performed for very different reasons and don't have the same impact.


    Sent from my GT-I9100 using BubHub
    I agree with you SPG

    MummaHan the reason I am anti RIC is because I believe o parent has the right to surgically alter a child's body UNLESS there is medical need. I have yet to see any evidence strong enough to suggest there IS medical need, even the AAP article we are discussing does not recommend RIC for all, which is would if there was enough benefit to the procedure. I understand your live and let live stance but to me this impinges on the human rights of the child and I do not pretend to agree that I am ok with that. I have not labelled anyone a child abuser etc, I have no doubt that anyone who does it has good intentions, I just think it is time society examined the reasons people do it and made choice based on available evidence to stop this practice.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I have no doubt that anyone who does it has good intentions, I just think it is time society examined the reasons people do it and made choice based on available evidence to stop this practice.
    The medical and scientific communities have examined the reasons, and the evidence doesn't support the stopping of this practice. The evidence supports increasing the access to this practice, regardless of how much you would like this to not be true.

  4. #103
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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    The medical and scientific communities have examined the reasons, and the evidence doesn't support the stopping of this practice. The evidence supports increasing the access to this practice, regardless of how much you would like this to not be true.
    Then why is your AAP not recommending it? It says the risks are minimal but it does not recommend all boys be done, which it would if the evidence was there to support all these supposed benefits. Almost every alleged benefit can be obtained through other means. And you yourself have said this is not a necessary procedure.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I just think it is time society examined the reasons people do it and made choice based on available evidence to stop this practice.
    I'll quote you again. What evidence are you talking about? The AAP wants to increase access. Not stop it.

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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    I'll quote you again. What evidence are you talking about? The AAP wants to increase access. Not stop it.
    The AAP cites religious, cultural and ethnic traditions as appropriate reasons to circ, none of which do I agree with. They do not recommend all boys be done. I am not going to argue in circles with you, you can go back and read all my previous comments. I am just as entitled to my beliefs as you are father and was simply putting a view across to MummaHan.

  7. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    I am just as entitled to my beliefs as you are father and was simply putting a view across to MummaHan.
    Thankyou for acknowledging that I am entitled to a belief. That is all I have been asking.

  8. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by MummaHan View Post
    I can compare it to vaccines, because a lot of people that choose to circ believe they are doing it to decrease the chance of something bad.
    Although my point was more so, as long as it's legal, along with the other things that I mentioned, we shouldn't be jumping down someone's throat because they choose this. Have some compassion for one another, that is all. We do NOT have to agree with it, but accept it.
    I also think the reason why so many of us get heated about it is just because it is legal doesn't make it right. There was a time when female circumcision was legal, yet the groundswell of people objecting to it means it is now illegal. In many countries smacking children is now illegal because people stood up collectively and said "enough".

    What I get from these discussions is that people are saying "yes you can do it to your son, it's not illegal, but it should be".

    Maybe if enough of us can convince that last remaining 10% who will cut off their son's foreskin to maybe think twice about it, then it's worth getting passionate about it.

    And so long as we are respectful, we do not have to accept it. I personally would have real problems if friends of mine circ'd their baby "just because". It would be something I would have a lot of difficulty understanding, but I wouldn't end a friendship over it. It's just something I don't like to see and yes flame me but I am passionate about children and their rights.

    (ps this is not about smacking I am only using it as an example where something legal a has become illegal in some countries I don't mention it for any other purpose)
    Last edited by Sonja; 01-09-2012 at 00:10.

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  10. #108
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    Default American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    Quote Originally Posted by MummaHan View Post
    It certainly is NOT child abuse, nor is it our right to call it so. It falls under the same category as vaccines, ear piercing, abortion and even c-sections; that of a parent's right to choose.

    Just because we choose to do some things different to what other parents may, it does NOT make our decision right and theirs wrong, just DIFFERENT.
    Whether or not 'child abuse' is an accurate description is dependent on ones personal views.

    Unfortunately you're right. Circumcision falls in the same 'parent can choose' category as abortion, vaccines, ear piercing and to *some* extent c-secs. Whether each should actually be a parents choice is open for debate. And the issue of parents choice is where the similarities end.
    - abortion is ending a life, circ'ing is removing a body part
    - overwhelmingly scientific evidence proves vaccinations have substantial medical benefits. Circ'ing has a few very tiny benefits, most of which can be obtained via less intrusive means.
    - ear piercing is an unecessary procedure. So is circumcision. However a hole in your ear can 'close' and repair itself. A foreskin can never grow back.
    - csections are often done for significant medical benefits. Circumcision is done for cultural reasons sometimes poorly disguised as 'medical' benefits.

    Sometimes when parents make different decisions... Some are wrong. It's naive to think parents always make the right decisions. Whether or not circumcision is wrong depends on the individual circumstance and your personal views.
    - I personally think circumcision for any reason other than a specific medical condition/recommendation is wrong.

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    Default Re: American Academy of Paediatrics backs circumcision

    I was making a comparison ONLY in the sense that all of these are.things that a parent can legally choose, things that other people disagree with.
    Like I said earlier, I don't agree with r.i.c. but I don't go around telling parents that do agree with it that.they're bad people, nor should anyone else!

    It's when people get on the anti-ric train and start throwing around nasty comments, that a lot of people start to discount everything they are saying, even if there is truth to it.
    Last edited by DQ; 01-09-2012 at 09:48.

  12. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sonja View Post
    I also think the reason why so many of us get heated about it is just because it is legal doesn't make it right. There was a time when female circumcision was legal, yet the groundswell of people objecting to it means it is now illegal. In many countries smacking children is now illegal because people stood up collectively and said "enough".

    What I get from these discussions is that people are saying "yes you can do it to your son, it's not illegal, but it should be".
    )
    Exactly - progress is change. Change is progress. Most people feel their sons are perfect just the way they are and recognise that circumcision exists as a cultural/religious practice only, religion also being on the decline.

    I still don't see how one can see any medical benefits in the practice given all the info, and feel its a gross misinterpretation of the information. But i do accept the practice will always have some support based on custom and religious beliefs. I'm glad it's on the decline though.


 

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