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  1. #81
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Be gobsmacked then. I do not see why using science to make a decision is ridiculous? I'm guessing you don't use science or statistics to justify putting needles into your precious newborn?
    Use the science to note the 93% chance of no issues then.

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    I find that an interesting excuse. A 7% chance of anything wouldn't make any kind of procedure necessary. A 5% risk of lymph node cancer isn't even enough for Drs to remove lymph nodes in people with some AI diseases, and that is wayyyy more dangerous than a UTI.


    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    Use the science to note the 93% chance of no issues then.

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    How can you even compare vaccinations to Circ? Really? I'm don't even get riled up about the whole circ debate, but I have to agree with Witwicky on this one, it really sounds like you are clutching at straws and finding some really obscure medical links to try and justify your decision. Just own it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Be gobsmacked then. I do not see why using science to make a decision is ridiculous? I'm guessing you don't use science or statistics to justify putting needles into your precious newborn?

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  6. #84
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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    And out come the stupid comments.

    I will remind you all, that the American Academy of Pediatrics say that the medical benefits outweigh the risks, and that parents should circumcise their boys. This is despite VicPark's attempt at reading the statement.
    No they don't. They also site religion and culture as valid reasons to circ and state that it is a parents decision. I personally, after lots of reading, disagree. Religion and culture is not a valid reason, IMO, to chop off a functional body part.
    You yourself said there is a 7% risk, that means there is a 93% chance of all being fine. Yet you have the audacity to call other people's comments stupid.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Be gobsmacked then. I do not see why using science to make a decision is ridiculous? I'm guessing you don't use science or statistics to justify putting needles into your precious newborn?
    How is it "using science" to cut off someone else's foreskin when by your own figure there is a 93% chance of it being completely unnecessary?

    I'm sorry Father, you have a right to your opinion, and legally, a right to circ your kids, but the holier than thou attitude and condescension you heap on anyone who disagrees despite having perfectly valid arguments smacks of someone trying to justify their choice. If you are happy with having circed your kids, fine, leave it at that. Many people see that as an abuse of the childs human rights and bodily autonomy. Anyone who feels this way will not be converted to your way of thinking by being condescended to and treated like a moron.
    Yes, they say now that it reduces possible transmission of HIV, some STDs and UTIs, however, those risked can be minimized through hygiene and safe sexual practice. I think boys are better being taught those things than having their foreskin lopped off.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by Turk EnJayDee View Post
    I am not jewish, so forgive me if this is wrong. When I studied religion, I found that circumcision was performed in biblical times due to dirty water, sand, dust and inability for hygienic cleaning of the penis.

    It's not really in the torah that to be a jewish man you have to be circumcised.

    In this day and age, those reasonings are null and void.

    As far as I'm concerned, unless you are grown and are having issues with it, it should not be performed. Especially on newborns and for the basis of religion, hygiene or prevention of disease (that one is just ignorant).

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    It is in the Torah that ur son has to be circumcised. It stipulates how and when and by whom.

    The difference between male circ and female circ is that in my belief system the men circ their sons. With female circ the men circ their daughters and it is not a common practice. It's not a western practice. It's done to torture. That is not the same as circing your son. Men would not circ their own son if it meant they felt it was wrong and would harm them in the future.

    In Judaism we don't rely on the hospital system to have it done. We are not recorded on the circ stats coz we do it at home or in the synagogue. We don't pay for it. We donate the cost to charity. Generally it's a Jewish doctor trained in the law.

    I am not sure why non Jews do it but I believe that they have the right to make educated decisions on behalf of their children.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by lovesushi View Post
    Bec, i dont think its blackmailing but a true reflection of what they will do if it becomes illegal.

    I do really understand where both sides come from, being married to a Jewish man. For my in law family, they were more concerned about hygiene then religious reason.

    Although the concern about human right, body choice is very valid, going straight to bash religion/culture beliefs and calling these parents child abusers will not help any baby, it more just shows disrespect, ignorance, arrogance and insentivity. Religion/culture beliefs last for centuries, to change them you need a proper and respectful approach and education over a long period of time.
    U will never change orthodox Jewish practice. It has survived gross levels of adversity and still has remained intact and the same. Sure there are off shoots of reform Judaism but orthodoxy is still the norm.

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    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by hopefully2 View Post
    U will never change orthodox Jewish practice. It has survived gross levels of adversity and still has remained intact and the same. Sure there are off shoots of reform Judaism but orthodoxy is still the norm.
    (my bold)
    I have to disagree with you there. With the exception of maybe some extreme Muslims I would say all religious practices and expectations have developed over the years in light of social changes and scientific findings and advancements. I use the quote below as an example of practices that were once embraced as Jewish law.

    In the Torah, adultery (Lev. 20:10), fornication by women (Deut 22:21), homosexual acts (Lev. 20:13), blasphemy (Lev. 24:16), insulting one's parents (Exodus 21:17), and stubbornly disobeying one's parents (Deut. 21:18-21) are all punishable by death. Obviously, these laws are no longer enforced by traditionalists. In addition, according to Torah law, only a man can divorce his spouse (Deut. 24:1). This law was changed by rabbis to allow a woman to terminate a marriage. The Torah law which restricted inheritance to sons (Deut. 21:15-17) was also changed to allow transfer of property to daughters. Awareness of this precedent for change helps us to view circumcision with openness and flexibility.
    When we know better we do better.

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    Hahahaha

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Yes and we do abide by the law of the land... Which funnily enough is based on judeo christian law. Preventing the punishment of death for homosexuality, adultery etc does not change the practice of the religion. Preventing a right of passage such as circumcision does.


 
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