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  1. #91
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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Oh and men still have power over the giving of a Jewish divorce. If a Jewish man refuses his wife a divorce she can be divorced civilly but still unable to marry again.

  2. #92
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    rainbow road is offline look at the stars, look how they shine for you
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    I agree, circumcision is one of the fundamentals of Jewish law. I don't think it'll be very easily changed, particularly in orthodox communities. I know a few reform Jews who haven't circumcised but orthodox judaism is totally different.

    Don't agree with it, but it's not as easily changed as the other examples you gave, Bec, which aren't fundamental to Judaism the way circumcision is.

    ETA: hopefully2 I presume you're talking about orthodox judaism specifically?

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Yes I stated I was referring to orthodox Judaism...which is what most traditional Jews as myself belong to.

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    Sorry I didn't see. My family are reform Jews but my uncle practices orthodox Judaism so I see a little from both sides.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    And out come the stupid comments.

    I will remind you all, that the American Academy of Pediatrics say ... that parents should circumcise their boys.
    This is *not* what the AAP say at all. They simply suggest that the existence of *some* *potential* health benefits justifies access to the procedure if parents wish. There is no ethical discussion as they have somewhat passed the buck on this matter which is a bit disappointing for a group which should be advocating more strongly for children in my view.

    From the statement:
    "Although health benefits are not great enough to recommend routine circumcision for all male newborns, the benefits of circumcision are sufficient to justify access to this procedure for families choosing it and to warrant third-party payment for circumcision of male newborns".

    Father (I do feel like I should be slipping into a confessional here) I would suggest that you are twisting the words of the AAP to suit your own agenda.
    Last edited by Chrysanthemum; 28-08-2012 at 14:53.

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    Atropos  (28-08-2012),beebs  (28-08-2012),Ellewood  (28-08-2012),trishalishous  (28-08-2012)

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    It's fine I just don't get how self righteous people on here are. People have a right to parent the way they determine is best...they are not child abuses or negligent, brainwashed or simple...they do research and choose.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Quote Originally Posted by Father View Post
    Be gobsmacked then. I do not see why using science to make a decision is ridiculous? I'm guessing you don't use science or statistics to justify putting needles into your precious newborn?
    It's interesting that at the beginning of this topic, all your reasoning for circ'ing your sons was for religious beliefs, now all of a sudden, after conveniently finding an article that you have twisted to make your point, it's all about medical risks and prevention of disease...
    I just don't understand what you hope to achieve by being so argumentative?

    For the record, I am neither for nor against circ'ing. I'll admit I am not very well educated in the topic, but my honest opinion (though I may be flamed for it) is that I won't be doing it to my son, but each to their own.

    Though, to be honest, I don't feel it's fair to outlaw the procedure to all except those with a religious reason. Religion is a choice, why should their choice give them more rights than me to chose to circ or not circ my son.

    Like I said, I personally don't feel the procedure is necessary, but if others are allowed to make the choice either way, we all should be.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    Agreed

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    Quote Originally Posted by hopefully2 View Post
    It's fine I just don't get how self righteous people on here are. People have a right to parent the way they determine is best...they are not child abuses or negligent, brainwashed or simple...they do research and choose.
    I hope I haven't come across as self righteous.
    From my (and other anti-ric people) perspective, people do have a right to parent in the way they chose, however, that does not mean a parent has the right to surgically alter a baby as we would argue that is a violation of that baby's human rights. In saying that, I don't like the word 'child abuse' thrown around as I believe it does nothing for 'the cause' an only serves to polarize. I would rather look ahead than behind.

    I realise that *I* am not going change orthodox Jewish practices (or Muslim for that matter) but my motive for the posts in this thread is twofold. Firstly, if at all possible, to prick a conscious with someone who is in the position where their religion requires them to ric and they perhaps are not comfortable with this. To that person I say that you have every right to challenge this practice. Secondly, on a more general level, just because a practice is part of a religion does not make it off limits to be questioned. There is such a strong belief that because certain practices are asked or required from a religion that somehow we must not question them as that would be disrespectful in the least and persecution at the most. Why do religious beliefs get a free reign? Why is it ok to challenge political beliefs but not religious beliefs?

    I hope the English in the above paragraphs isn't too bad, I've got a throbbing headache and can't bring myself to proof read.

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    Default Interesting article in Weekend Australian

    I am all up for questioning why decisions r made based on religious belief but as was shown in the previous thread when i tried to explain how important this covenant with god is to a Jew it gets thrown back as brain washed.

    Sorry typing with one hand whilst feeding my new born son.


 

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