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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Aha, the ole if you are feeling guilty about formula feeding then maybe you should address that chestnut, because of course it is all down to you as the individual right? Nothing to do with say, people saying formula is poison and comparing it with AIDS right?? Of course not.
    Yep that's a well worn line in the ffing debate. If you feel angry at ffers being judged and persecuted you must feel guilty! It's akin to the line I see on here that I hate "no one can make you feel anything, you do that to yourself". Ahh huhh

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by SPC View Post
    I'm an LC, and have personally be harassed by an ABA nut who accused me of being too pro formula amongst other silly things. On the whole the ABA does it's best to highly police it's leaders and their party line is research based and appropriate. There are however a number of women who volunteer for the ABA who have an axe to grind and this is why I find it so hard to get the women I advise to go to an ABA meeting. Which is a shame because it is the best, and cheapest way to succeed at breastfeeding. The fear of being made to feel inadequate is particularly high in vulnerable new mothers.

    What puzzles me is that she was preaching to the converted. These people had already paid in excess of $100 to even be there. They want to breastfeed. FFS use that time to tell them what they need to know to achieve their goal. How long people want to breastfeed for, and in fact if they chose to at all, is none of our business. The vast majority of Australian women want very much to breastfeed. We don't need to tell them to. We need to help them learn how. There is so much to learn about newborn behaviour, infant feeding patterns and what is biologically normal, that spending even a minute on putting formula down is crazy. Very few parents actually want to use formula. Women are not idiots, blithely deciding that bottle feeding looks cool. They are struggling to succeed in a culture that has forgotten how normal breastfed babies behave, what breastfeeding even looks like, and in a health care system set up to promote artificial feeding.
    We often don't agree on this topic but I think i agree with everything you just said

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  5. #63
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    Default not so helpful advice from the ABA - all threads merged

    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    Just so you know this woman wouldn't 'work' for the ABA. She would be a volunteer counsellor who took up a training at much of her own cost and donated her time to counsel and educate women in breastfeeding. That doesn't excuse her actions of course but I just wanted to clarify that she wasn't paid for her role.
    Honestly I think that anyone with a brain will be able to realize that the words of one women does not make the ABA as an organization unethical or unprofessional!

    I will still look to the ABA for support and education if needed. I still respect them as an organization. I know that one extremists views mean nothing in the grand scheme of things!

    The world is filled with people with crazy outlandish views about breastfeeding, parenting and lots of other topics and these views really mean nothing to me!!!

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    But she did not specify that it doesn't happen in Australia. Scaremongering in the highest order. And like PP I rang ABA and must have got a renegade one, because even though they aren't medically trained they honestly think you should disregard medical advice if you are suffering complex medical issues that interfere with breastfeeding. I think ABA is a very good organisation that should stick to minor troubles breastfeeding. But they -don't they try and give advice way over their qualifications, and that shouldn't be happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    I don't know if this has been said- but the figure of a baby dying every 30 seconds somewhere in the world because of artifical baby milk is a stat given by UNICEF (and they feel it affects the western world, not just third world countries) . So it isn't something she made up on her own...

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    Default not so helpful advice from the ABA - all threads merged

    Actually the study was based in third world countries.
    before it become illegal to do so Nestlé was supplying formula to healthcare institutions in third world countries having health care professionals promote their product.

    The study showed babies were dying due to poor hygiene (of the bottles) water contamination and the fact that on average it cost families half of their monthly income to buy formula for their baby, so mothers were diluting formula to save- causing malnutrition. However having healthcare providers bottle feed the babies immediately after birth made it harder for babies to latch on even if mothers did want to revert, so often they were left with no choice but to continue formula feeding.

    Other studies have shown that breast feeding lowers risk for diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, and numerous other diseases- however no study has shown that ff increases the risk for these diseases.

    Formula does not kill a baby every 30secs in Australia or any other developed country for that matter.

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  10. #66
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    Default not so helpful advice from the ABA - all threads merged

    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    I don't know if this has been said- but the figure of a baby dying every 30 seconds somewhere in the world because of artifical baby milk is a stat given by UNICEF (and they feel it affects the western world, not just third world countries) . So it isn't something she made up on her own...
    You aren't saying that you believe this is the case in Australia, Europe, USA are you?? Because UNICEF does not say that.

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  12. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparklebug View Post
    so mothers were diluting formula to save- causing malnutrition. .
    unfortunately the same thing happens here, due to finances or misunderstanding.

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    Default Re: not so helpful advice from the ABA - all threads merged

    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    The UNICEF website states that is especially important for third world countries but also an issue for westernised or industrialised countries
    I think we've lost the point of this thread. It's about a weird woman freaking out new mums.
    Whether her statements are loosely based on a stretched fact about childhood deaths or not, it was her behavior that is in question.

    I can use any number of worrying facts to prove why you simply shouldn't even set foot outside of your door in the morning.
    But I don't, because it's scaremongering and it's wrong to do that to people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbles10 View Post
    Better people than who? The ABA is the leading source of breastfeeding information and support in Australia. The information that the Organisation provides is evidence based, and updated where necessary. THere is no-one else who provides the advocacy and support to mothers in Australia.

    It sounds like the counsellor in this article has gone outside the boundaries of the ABA. An individual, not the Organisation.

    Just to clarify, based on the information in the article article she did not say that the giving a baby formula was like giving a baby AIDS. She compared the mechanism of AIDS with the effects of formula. They are different things. It is not something i would even think of, and i wouldn't use a comparison of AIDS with anything due to the emotional response that people have even to the word AIDS, and especially in a public forum because you don't know the background of the people that you are talking to. The message would get lost (as is shown here) by the emotion.

    I am not defending the speaker, i don't understand why she has chosen that way to present her information.

    Ahh, better people than the moron who made the comments. I don't recall saying the ABA was the wrong association to get the message out.

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    Default Re: not so helpful advice from the ABA - all threads merged

    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    Surely if people were paying to attend a class or seminar about the topic you would divulge that information though. It isn't like the woman is running around with a soapbox making impromptu speeches at EKKA, the Queen St Mall or putting sticky labels on tins of formula in supermarkets
    Explain to me how what she did was any different? She had a captive audience and dropped "facts" on them that at least one of the attendees was horrified and upset by.
    Her soap box was even higher than most because those people had already paid to be there. They weren't likely to leave. They weren't there to find out how "bad" formula is, they were there to get assistance with breastfeeding.

    So yeah, she was soapboxing. Preaching to the choir. Venting her spleen. Whatever you want to call it she had no right to twist the facts around to sit her own agenda which was simply to ensure that she sufficiently scared those people into going what she thought was best.
    There's a word for people like that. Manipulative. Or if you want the unvarnished truth... Bully.

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