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  1. #601
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    Wunsi - I didn't mean you specifically. Just noticed a LOT of people say sperm or swimmers, when they're really just talking about ejaculate. It's not something one would think about if they didn't have reason to think of them as separate entities.

    Sel - funny, my FS said the reason I was ending up with less quality blasts than day 3 embies was probably due to my eggs. I wanted him to say it was the sperm, because it's donor sperm so simple solution - try a different donor. But he doesn't think that's the problem. Well, he doesn't think there is a problem at all - he thinks my results are "very impressive" at age 37. But I find it frustrating to have 9 eggs fertilise, be called at day 3 and told all 9 are still kicking, 6 really good, the other 3 not so much ... and then walk in on transfer day & be told there's 1 to transfer and 1 to freeze. (1st cycle they didn't even freeze any)
    Last edited by peoniesarepretty; 26-08-2012 at 21:25.

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    Hmm, it can of course be either. Our first cycle with repromed (so the one before we lost the twins) all our embies were going great guns on day 3, then d5, all had arrested and fragmented badly. This led the FS to say sperm the main factor. Apparently the paternal genome is activated after d3. Up to d3 its all egg. Is your donor a proven donor? Im sure he is!
    My FS thinks we have a bit of an egg quality issue too - hence the testing for fragile x, but even the other day when I asked him about the first cycle he said when we have testicular sperm and all arrest on d4/d5 it generally indicated sperm.
    Who knows hey! I guess its just more evidence that it is all an experiment.
    I did read something the other day that says something like 90 per cent of embryo probs are eggs. Not sure about that, but it seems to be the thing they identify first.
    I guess I am always just thinking that the sperm is important too, especially if you have an MFI issue - poor morph, poor motility, testicular sperm like us.

    Sorry probably not helping much am I

    My FS still gives us a really good chance too. Just that it might take a bit longer than the norm for the less complex cases because we have bad sperm and lesser quality eggs, Im overweight and 35 very soon. So...I dont know LOL

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    Oh and 9 eggs is great. 7 is average for someone my age. And totally understand the feeling of the attrition rate. But also remember not all eggs make it to blast, something like only 20-60 per cent do. And I know your clinic only freezes the best ones yeah, mine too.
    Hence why I get to transfer two now these days as well.
    Damn science, we love you and hate you all at once!

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    Peez -that's exactly the issue I have! My FS said it could be a sperm issue, however both he and the scientist agree that DH's sperm is usable... he does have low morphology/motility, but his count is OK and things have improved slightly since taking aloe juice/pepitas and goji berries.

    As for the whole sex thing - I think that there are many, many women who don't/cant DTD either the day of EPU or before ET - for reasons such as mine (pain) or sariele (her DH isn't there) and so i honestly don't think it would make THAT much difference, or else it would be something that is mandatory. I can't think that whether or not we fall pregnant from IVF is due to whether or not we have sex! We all do the best we can with out circumstances. I honestly think that if i tried to follow every single thing I read, i'd send myself around the bend.

    I mentioned this in another thread, but my DH and i had a huge chat today, and it came about that he wants to try IVF a number of times more than I do before trying donor eggs/sperm. It seems that it's really important to him that we have a half me/half him baby. It's only our second try, but there's definitely an egg/embryo issue there. SO... I said to him that if we're going to do this, i want to mix it up as much as possible. If this pregnancy doesn't take, i'm trying saizen once, and we're both going to see a naturopath that specialises in infertility. She's an RN and a naturopath here in Brisbane. I just want someone to help me manage this. I'm also willing to try acupuncture this month, so will make an appt to see someone tomorrow. We have agreed that we need a plan B, but i'm not going to put my body through this over and again without being completely proactive and trying everything we can, western, natural and otherwise.

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    I have seen enough people mention that about it being sperm issues after day 3 - that's why I asked him. In my case, it's not like I'm stuck with DH's sperm, even if that is the issue. DH literally has none, so it had to be donor sperm. The donor is through the clinic list, and my FS just said that donor sperm is usually better than the sperm of most patients' partners, because it's been checked for motility, morphology etc & inferior sperm wouldn't make the cut as a donor. But we haven't been given any of those stats for the donor sperm, so how do we know?

    I know my doc doesn't BS me, but part of me thinks he might have been a bit cagey on that question as the clinic provided the sperm. So if it was the case that my eggs are fine but the sperm was rubbish, and we paid not only for the cycle but for the sperm as well ... that's not going to make me very happy, especially not at my age.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SelM22 View Post
    Oh and 9 eggs is great. 7 is average for someone my age. And totally understand the feeling of the attrition rate. But also remember not all eggs make it to blast, something like only 20-60 per cent do. And I know your clinic only freezes the best ones yeah, mine too.
    Hence why I get to transfer two now these days as well.
    Damn science, we love you and hate you all at once!
    I got 10 eggs, but 1 didn't fertilise. The fact that they were all still kicking on day 3 gave us great hope ... but day 5 is a different story.

    Previous cycle got 7 eggs and 6 fertilised (the other one didn't survive the ICSI). So my FS has said before that my eggs are good because they almost all fertilise. But then after this time, when I asked him why there's such attrition between day 3 and day 5, he said probably the eggs ... well, probably the fact that I'm 37, is what he was getting at. But I just want to know the truth, if it possibly is the sperm - not potentially waste time & money on a donor that's not helping!

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    Default Kween K'iesha's Chatroom

    Peez, wasn't worried, just apologising really for my slack use of sperm as as an interchangeable entity when quite clearly it is not. Me just a bit lazy and thoughtless Always happy for a clarification

  8. #608
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    Zakmick is offline Can't change the past, but we can learn from it to make us stronger and move forward!
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    Default Kween K'iesha's Chatroom

    Quote Originally Posted by wunsi View Post
    Peez, wasn't worried, just apologising really for my slack use of sperm as as an interchangeable entity when quite clearly it is not. Me just a bit lazy and thoughtless Always happy for a clarification
    Me too!!

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    Default Kween K'iesha's Chatroom

    Sorry to not do personals (I've been working on a uni assignment that's due Friday and it's was my eldest sons last soccer game of the season today so I've been a little preoccupied). I wanted to ask how many of you have used embryo glue and has it been successful?

  10. #610
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    All fair enough thoughts there peonies. Im not sure what to say really. You are right that the clinic must have done the right screening etc and generally the stats do support that most donor sperm is better than partner sperm.
    I think for us, DHs fresh sperm isnt great, frozen stuff is better - thus far. But we arent out of the woods in terms of donor stuff either. I reckon with those results you couldnt say definitively which it was. Sorry. That doesnt help.

    It really is a numbers game. And certainly so the older we get. We wont get the 6-8 good blastys or the 15. We are only ever going to have smaller numbers to work with, that is the age thing coming into play and the MFI stuff too for those of us with that. That is why my FS says the same as yours peonies - its just a matter of time. Our last cycle blew me away with 4 blasts from 6 eggs - but we changed a couple of things. Mind you, the 2 text book blasts, resulted in one not taking and the other splitting and becoming our identical twin blighted ova. (shrugs shoulders here!). FS says he thinks that was bad luck, but I know lots of people get told that.

    Peez - can you change donors? Sorry not sure how that works.

    KandP - I agree with you on the DTD thing. And really, Im sure it wont make that much difference.
    And our FS says DHs sperm is usable too, and many pregnancies result from severe MFI which we have, but often it takes a couple more cycles than the norm with better sperm.
    Tricky re the different number of tries. I think we all hear you on that. My DH is quite receptive so far to the idea of donor, as long as its not a known one. Fair enough. But the boys dont go through the trauma we do. So that is one you will need to negotiate over time.
    I always said four cycles in my head. And really I only think of one of our four as any good (one cancelled before EPU, on buggered by the former clinic BFN, one where nothing made blast at new clinic BFN, then one with the loss - so really only one. FS says I cant think of it in terms of numbers, but we all do. I mean this process is fing hard).

    Hugs girls. I wish there was a clear answer for us all.
    Keep asking questions...thats my strategy...


 

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