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  1. #211
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    Ulysses is offline In the eyes of a child you will see...the world as it should be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    I'm not sure what further clarification you need. Where is a study comparing health outcomes of fully vaccinated v non vaccinated human adults? Is there one? Isn't it obvious what could be achieved by such a study? Aren't there conflicting environmental factors of most long term studies eg. birth outcomes? Don't researchers account for these when interpreting results?
    ok, without meaning to be rude. Do you understand my previous post? I am saying that such a study could only prove CORRELATION (this means a relationship and scientifically speaking does not count for much) it could NOT prove CAUSATION i.e. one thing causes another.

    It seems you may not understand that just about anything can be related (if at all) but it is causation that is required for you or anyone else to say that one thing (vaccinations) cause another (auto immunue issues etc.).

    Not only vaccines have increased over the years but so have pesticides, chemical exposure etc. it is a bit of a witch hunt tp suggest it is vaccines with out scientific evidence.
    Last edited by Ulysses; 17-08-2012 at 09:45.

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  3. #212
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    I actually responded to your quote prior reading your following post.

    I don't have the answer you are looking for. I've stated my point of view as an attempt to show the reasoning behind why a family may choose selective vaccination. That's all there is to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    Not only vaccines have increased over the years but so have pesticides, chemical exposure etc. it is a bit of a witch hunt tp suggest it is vaccines with out scientific evidence.
    We limit exposure to those, too. Despite a distinct lack of scientific evidence... (Did you know diesel fumes are carcinogenic? - too bad for all the people who inhaled them regularly until science confirmed the CAUSATION, huh?)

  5. #214
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    Ulysses is offline In the eyes of a child you will see...the world as it should be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    We limit exposure to those, too. Despite a distinct lack of scientific evidence... (Did you know diesel fumes are carcinogenic? - too bad for all the people who inhaled them regularly until science confirmed the CAUSATION, huh?)
    vaccines are tested extensively, my guess is diesel fumes weren't, hence taking longer to find the issue. like comparing apples and oranges.

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    So is it scientifically impossible to prove/disprove any link between autoimmune disorders and vaccination?

    Whoops, I'd better rephrase this to distinguish between CORRELATION (link) and CAUSATION (cause). Is it scientifically impossible to prove any CAUSATION between autoimmune disorders, and vaccine use?
    Last edited by BornToBe; 17-08-2012 at 10:10.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    So is it scientifically impossible to prove/disprove any link between autoimmune disorders and vaccination?
    Studies are currently beig done. If it were impossible I see no reason for them to spend time and money on it.

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  10. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    So is it scientifically impossible to prove/disprove any link between autoimmune disorders and vaccination?
    no, it is not impossible. It just hasn't been done.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellibean View Post
    How do I protect my newborn baby from the non vaccinated? Don't leave the house for 12 months?

    Should be the other way around....
    I was wondering if you mean anyone not up to date should never leave the house. Those who are only vaxed for some things, those unable to be vaxed at all, or just those who have remained unvaccinated by choice?

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    Autoimmune disease was first identified in 1910, well before routine vaccinations were in place. It is proven that VPD's and viruses can trigger autoimmune diseases in the first place and that you can't get autoimmune diseases without the genes.

    Also what about the amount of poisons in the air we breathe, the food we eat etc. Autoimmune diseases are so complex, far too complex to blame one thing, I would hazard a guess that our lifestyle has a lot to do with predisposed people developing autoimmune diseases.

    Your theory, would only be beneficial if you were sure that you were carrier of any number of those genes as well, assuming that vaccines did trigger autoimmune diseases.

    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    I'm not sure what further clarification you need. Where is a study comparing health outcomes of fully vaccinated v non vaccinated human adults? Is there one? Isn't it obvious what could be achieved by such a study? Aren't there conflicting environmental factors of most long term studies eg. birth outcomes? Don't researchers account for these when interpreting results?

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    Coeliac has been around long before the current vaccine schedule, and many people have or had it, and even more have it and don't realise.

    Autoimmune triggers are thought to be disease, stress and environmental. To say that it is vaccines seems a little naive to me, and to say that you feel you can somehow lessen the changes by not vaxxing seems odd, because by getting a VPD it can be triggered. So really - it is a catch 22. Except that there is no evidence showing that vaccines can trigger autoimmune disease.

    Quote Originally Posted by share a book View Post
    My dd's paed and paediatric gastroenterologist said there are current studies underway regarding possible links between the vax schedule and her auto-immune disease, however at the time (over a year ago) the studies were not yet complete.

    However, as you know my dd is not fully vaxed, and not to schedule, I am fully vaxed and carry the gene but don't have the disease, and my mum had very few vaxes (lived in the bush with limited access to anything medical) until 4 years ago when she started working with Indigenous children in a school, it was part of her being employed there. Although not tested until dd's diagnosis, she has had symptoms her entire adult life and before that she lived off fruit, veg and rice growing up so no symptoms could be present.

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