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  1. #51
    Busy-Bee's Avatar
    Busy-Bee is offline Offending people since before Del :D
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blossompossum View Post
    If you were seeking asylum would you not go to the first available safe country? Why would they do this? http://m.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/...-1226436220053
    In the show "Send them back to where they came from" they take 6 Australians and give them a refugee experience in reverse (ie, start in Australia then to Malaysia then some go to Jordan and some to the UN refugee camp in Africa). They lived in a refugee compound for Chin refugees. These people slept many to a room, minimal toilet/shower facilities (it, one per 50 or so), they could not leave the compound or they would be arrested by police and sent back to Burma (I think). The only time they could leave was the children could go to a makeshift school and the men could go and work on construction sites or doing farm work. The work was backbreaking with no safety regulations and they pay? Nothing. They got fed, that was it. The Malaysian government can keep them in these compounds indefiniately. The persectution also follows them so just because they had left Burma doesn't mean they were safe. So whilst they might be a little safer in Malaysia they are still prisoners for the rest of their lives. They cannot even step outside without fear of being separated from their family and sent back to Burma which would be a likely death penalty. What I took from watching the show was that getting on a leaky boat, although it was highly risky, there was hope at the other end, something which they did not have where they were.

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  3. #52
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    I think you'll find the stats say most are genuine, sure there are a few scammers- but so there are in every society - how many people in Australia scam the government? Heaps.

    The mental trauma that many of these people face from the things that they have seen is massive, they have huge rates of PTSD and depression and some of them end up locked up in detention centres for years and treated like criminals when they are not. The amount of suicide attempts and self harm that happen in the centres is huge. There was a report done by a group of psychiatrists that said we should not be locking these people up - it is basically one of the worst things we could do.

    Do you really think they should be jumping up and down and kissing our feet because we lock them up?

    And what is with the fear of "boat people" 90% of Asylum seekers come over on the good old fashioned plane and you don't hear people screaming "send the plane people back". I mean come on, ever think maybe you might be buying into the media hype??

    Quote Originally Posted by Blossompossum View Post
    Ok but how many of them are genuine asylum seekers? Twy come
    Off the boats waving and smiling infront of the cameras and then stage protests on top of the Christmas island roofs threatening to not eat unless they get what they want. Come one. If they were are genuine I would think it was great Australia is taking them in but I doubt it very
    Much

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    They aren't even referred to as 'plane people'. I find the term 'boat people' incredibly insulting.

    You're right ~Bec~ there are lots of scamming Australians. We have gangs, violence, thieves, you name it. Assuming that because somebody is from overseas they must have an ulterior motive or must have a dubious plan is xenophobic at best.

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    Haha, snap!

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post


    I've never seen a thread on here about "illegal" plane people!

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    I think the 'boat people' label is a way of dehumanising them. It makes it easier for the government to treat them badly because its saying they aren't regular people the same as us. No they're 'boat people'; like a sub class of people.

    My parents came here on a boat. But they never get referred to as boat people. The convicts and early settlers all came here by boat too but that label doesn't get used for them either.

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  10. #56
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    I heard a report the other day that said the highest number of visa overstayers were from the States. Why is that not worse than Asylum seekers? Eventually A/S will work and pay taxes, if you overstay your visa you will have to work cash in hand otherwise the authorities would catch you.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    90-95% are genuine!

    And yet again, people forget or just don't know (because the media happen to omit from their news) that more people arrive "illegally" by plane!

    I've never seen a thread on here about "illegal" plane people!

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    I have no doubt there are many genuine refugees in the world that need asylum.

    However the Australian population is becoming hardened to the plight of refugees resulting in grumpy old men like the one you ran into. Several things are hardening public opinion:

    1. Fraud
    not all people who arrive on boats are genuine refugees. Take capt Emad the people smuggler that featured in the
    4 corners episode for example. And I doubt he's not the only one, illegal arrivals are known to dump ID documents overboard and encourage young adults to lie about their age before they arrive in OZ. People are worried that we really don't know who the people are. How many murderers and rapists are hidden amongst them? (no poit relying on security checks when people throw their ID overboard!).

    2. Window shopping
    Asylum seekers arrive via plane to a safe haven country ... And then organise an illegal boat trip to another country (Australia). Many think this is arrogant & self entitled window shopping .... (ie "we don't want safe haven in any old country, we want out nr 1 pick!").
    - This also makes people doubt the genuine nature of their asylum claim (if they were in harms way back home, why don't they seek safe haven in the first safe haven country they arrive in?)

    3. Security
    - people don't like to feel that their national borders are not secure and any old bogeyman can get them.

    4. Queue jumping
    Jumping in line is un-Australian. Jump in line at the school cafeteria and you'll cop an earful. Many see refugees arriving illegally as Queue jumpers. Why can't they wait in line at the UNHCR camps with all the poor refugees that can't afford thousands of $ to pay people smugglers. Illegal entry just makes the process longer and harder for those Seeking to come here illegally.

    5. Assistance from inside
    It's well known that family in OZ facilitate their relatives and friends coming here illegally. They pay people smuggling deposits and are in constant communication with the smuglee throughout their adventure. On the 4 corners show one lady in OZ was upset that her boyfriend went missing, presumably when an illegal boat struck disaster. Now I wouldn't wish death on anyone but this woman pretty much admitted she paid a people smuggler to bring her boyfriend out here so she could marry him. There was no mention of any hardship he faced back home. People get the heeby jeebies at the thought of someone in Australia actively organizing something like this. And it feeds the belief that not all people arriving illegally are genuine refugees.
    Last edited by VicPark; 10-08-2012 at 14:30.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I have no doubt there are many genuine refugees in the world that need asylum.

    However the Australian population is becoming hardened to the plight of refugees resulting in grumpy old men like the one you ran into. Several things are hardening public opinion:

    1. Fraud
    not all people who arrive on boats are genuine refugees. Take capt Emad the people smuggler that featured in the
    4 corners episode for example. And I doubt he's not the only one, illegal arrivals are known to dump ID documents overboard and encourage young adults to lie about their age before they arrive in OZ.

    2. Window shopping
    Asylum seekers arrive via plane to a safe haven country ... And then organise an illegal boat trip to another country (Australia). Many think this is arrogant & self entitled window shopping .... (ie "we don't want safe haven in any old country, we want out nr 1 pick!").
    - This also makes people doubt the genuine nature of their asylum claim (if they were in harms way back home, why don't they seek safe haven in the first safe haven country they arrive in?)

    3. Security
    - people don't like to feel that their national borders are not secure and any old bogeyman can get them.

    4. Queue jumping
    Jumping in line is un-Australian. Jump in line at the school cafeteria and you'll cop an earful. Many see refugees arriving illegally as Queue jumpers. Why can't they wait in line at the UNHCR camps with all the poor refugees that can't afford thousands of $ to pay people smugglers.

    5. Assistance from inside
    It's well known that family in OZ facilitate their relatives and friends coming here illegally. They pay people smuggling deposits and are in constant communication with the smuglee throughout their adventure. On the 4 corners show one lady in OZ was upset that her boyfriend went missing, presumably when an illegal boat struck disaster. Now I wouldn't wish death on anyone but this woman pretty much admitted she paid a people smuggler to bring her boyfriend out here so she could marry him. There was no mention of any hardship he faced back home. People get the heeby jeebies at the thought of someone in Australia actively organizing something like this. And it feeds the belief that not all people arriving illegally are genuine refugees.
    I recommend you watch the entirety of the video I posted on this thread - pg 6.

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    Many people are just uneducated and ignorant twits and some are just uncaring ar$eholes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I have no doubt there are many genuine refugees in the world that need asylum.

    However the Australian population is becoming hardened to the plight of refugees resulting in grumpy old men like the one you ran into. Several things are hardening public opinion:

    1. Fraud
    not all people who arrive on boats are genuine refugees. Take capt Emad the people smuggler that featured in the
    4 corners episode for example. And I doubt he's not the only one, illegal arrivals are known to dump ID documents overboard and encourage young adults to lie about their age before they arrive in OZ. People are worried that we really don't know who the people are. How many murderers and rapists are hidden amongst them? (no poit relying on security checks when people throw their ID overboard!).

    2. Window shopping
    Asylum seekers arrive via plane to a safe haven country ... And then organise an illegal boat trip to another country (Australia). Many think this is arrogant & self entitled window shopping .... (ie "we don't want safe haven in any old country, we want out nr 1 pick!").
    - This also makes people doubt the genuine nature of their asylum claim (if they were in harms way back home, why don't they seek safe haven in the first safe haven country they arrive in?)

    3. Security
    - people don't like to feel that their national borders are not secure and any old bogeyman can get them.

    4. Queue jumping
    Jumping in line is un-Australian. Jump in line at the school cafeteria and you'll cop an earful. Many see refugees arriving illegally as Queue jumpers. Why can't they wait in line at the UNHCR camps with all the poor refugees that can't afford thousands of $ to pay people smugglers. Illegal entry just makes the process longer and harder for those Seeking to come here illegally.

    5. Assistance from inside
    It's well known that family in OZ facilitate their relatives and friends coming here illegally. They pay people smuggling deposits and are in constant communication with the smuglee throughout their adventure. On the 4 corners show one lady in OZ was upset that her boyfriend went missing, presumably when an illegal boat struck disaster. Now I wouldn't wish death on anyone but this woman pretty much admitted she paid a people smuggler to bring her boyfriend out here so she could marry him. There was no mention of any hardship he faced back home. People get the heeby jeebies at the thought of someone in Australia actively organizing something like this. And it feeds the belief that not all people arriving illegally are genuine refugees.
    I actually think it had more to do with media portrayal such as you describe. They focus on the negative stories like you describe, tell half of it and ignore all the rest giving the impression they are portraying typical refugees when they are not.


 

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