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  1. #311
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I agree some men change into deadbeats post conception and that's not the women's fault. And domestic violence is never the woman's fault.

    At the same time I think there's a reasonable portion of women who can and should accept some responsibility for their kids having sperm donors instead of daddy's. Eg:
    - those who get pregnant by young men (under 23?) who may not be mature enough to raise a child/have not lived their lives
    - those who get pregnant by someone before they have enough time to really know them (and what sort of a father they will be)
    - those that gloss over little 'negative quirks' because they love their partners (eg don't help with the house cleaning, call them names). Then have kids/continue to have kids because they think/hope the partner will change or do not think things will get worse (negative quirks can be a sign of worse things to come).
    - women that do not use contraception (or use it incorrectly) when they are not as certain as they can be that their partner is good daddy material.

    I'm not saying that Single mothers are bad and shouldn't have kids. They have a bloody hard job and I don't know how they do it. And I'm not saying the kids will necessarily be worse off if they don't have a daddy in their lives.

    I'm just saying that on online forums plenty of women complain about their baby daddy and call them sperm donors. And I find it very hard to believe that out of all of those women, none of them share any responsibility for their baby having just a sperm donor. This is a feminist thread and i think its appropriate, if (where applicable), women own up to their part instead of just calling their baby daddy names.
    - women's rights are better served by encouraging females to take responsibility, make wise choices and learn from their mistakes (yes, no-ones perfect). Simply blaming the man takes power away from women.

    DO NOT QUOTE

    I was 22 turning 23 when ds was born ... ds's father was 1 month shy of 21.

    We got together when he was *just* over18 (2 weeks over)
    We lost our first child the weekend BEFORE his 21st.

    Having babies was HIS idea, he suggested it and we talked many months about expectations and behaviours.

    We were together 3 years when ds was born, we had LIVED together 3 years before ds was born.

    He was a loving partner, he helped with the house.

    When i got out of hospital from having ds i had a weeks worth of filthy dishes and a newborn to deal with (among other things)

    I spent a week hospitalised with my ds at 7 weeks old, he visited twice and spent the rest of the time playing games.

    I have been called a sl*t, fat c*nt, lazy pog among other things.

    I have had my things broken and a hole punched in my wall.

    He spent the morning of dss first christmas calling me names then going back to bed, i spent it holding ds and waiting for his father to wake up (4 hours later)

    I have had nights where he has told me he is going to kill himself and left, leaving me sick with worry for HOURS that because i dared to be annoyed about something dss father was going to be dead.

    Eta - ALL of the above he denies, claims no memory of or says is my fault for ****ing him off.

    We splitwhen ds was 8 months old because he was on strong, HIGHLY POISONOUS pain killers and kept leaving them on the ground as 'ds cant move yet ' we spent 12 months completely seperated.

    Things are better now (very minimal agressive behaviours, no name calling) but he is still very lazy.

    I suppose all of that ^ Is somehow my fault for choosing a 'young' partner?

    I think not, age dont mean ****!

    At 22 my father was raising 5 step kids and 3 biological kids (ONE of whom spent many months in hospital and had yearly hospital trips)

    AGE is used as an EXCUSE to shirk responsabilities!
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    Last edited by GuestMember; 12-08-2012 at 19:48.

  2. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Based on that argument, would you tell deadbeat dads who claim to be 'tricked' or forced into fatherhood that it's their fault bc they lay down with a woman who they didn't truly know, they should have worked out she was no good, and face up to their responsibility and provide for the kids they made?

    Personal responsibility and all...
    That's exactly what I'd tell him.

  3. #313
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    No, it doesn't take power away from women, just responsibility from men!
    Thats a very catchy line but I think it's without substance.

    Encouraging women to accept their part doesn't mean the man gets off Scott free.

    If we gloss over everything and tell all women that they have no responsibility for having a deadbeat baby daddy ... then how are they supposed to be expected to make better choices In the future? To improve their lives?

    If you want to make women feel good in the short run then go ahead and tell them they are perfect and they couldnt have done anything differently. That it's 100% the mans fault. Let them call the men any names they want. You'll probably get lots of high 5's from women in here and that will probably make you feel good too.

    If you truly want to help the woman have a better life then ask women to self reflect for a few minutes. With hindsight were there any warning signs that their fob would be a deadbeat? Was there anything they could have done differently to protect themselves from having a deadbeat fob? If the answer is truly no, then oh well good on them. But I doubt many women would fit into this category.

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    Last edited by GuestMember; 14-07-2014 at 19:58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post

    If you truly want to help the woman have a better life then ask women to self reflect for a few minutes. With hindsight were there any warning signs that their fob would be a deadbeat? Was there anything they could have done differently to protect themselves from having a deadbeat fob? If the answer is truly no, then oh well good on them. But I doubt many women would fit into this category.
    You strike me as a no bullsh*t type of person like me, one that won't put up crap, from our partners nor anyone. personally I find it an admirable trait and I like that I'm like that. My Dh says I'm feisty and he loves that.

    But.... some women lack the self esteem to boot him out. Some grew up in bad homes so it is normal. Sometimes he's charismatic and promises the world. She is left holding the responsibility, the child. She is left with sleepless nights, DC fees and school uniforms. That is her personal responsibility in the situation.

    I just won't and can't believe that staying in an abusive relationship (often out of fear) means it's her fault he runs like a dog shot in the behind later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nemmi View Post
    I was 22 turning 23 when ds was born ... ds's father was 1 month shy of 21.

    We got together when he was *just* over18 (2 weeks over)
    We lost our first child the weekend BEFORE his 21st.

    Having babies was HIS idea, he suggested it and we talked many months about expectations and behaviours.

    We were together 3 years when ds was born, we had LIVED together 3 years before ds was born.

    He was a loving partner, he helped with the house.

    When i got out of hospital from having ds i had a weeks worth of filthy dishes and a newborn to deal with (among other things)

    I spent a week hospitalised with my ds at 7 weeks old, he visited twice and spent the rest of the time playing games.

    I have been called a sl*t, fat c*nt, lazy pog among other things.

    I have had my things broken and a hole punched in my wall.

    He spent the morning of dss first christmas calling me names then going back to bed, i spent it holding ds and waiting for his father to wake up (4 hours later)

    I have had nights where he has told me he is going to kill himself and left, leaving me sick with worry for HOURS that because i dared to be annoyed about something dss father was going to be dead.

    Eta - ALL of the above he denies, claims no memory of or says is my fault for ****ing him off.

    We splitwhen ds was 8 months old because he was on strong, HIGHLY POISONOUS pain killers and kept leaving them on the ground as 'ds cant move yet ' we spent 12 months completely seperated.

    Things are better now (very minimal agressive behaviours, no name calling) but he is still very lazy.

    I suppose all of that ^ Is somehow my fault for choosing a 'young' partner?

    I think not, age dont mean ****!

    At 22 my father was raising 5 step kids and 3 biological kids (ONE of whom spent many months in hospital and had yearly hospital trips)

    AGE is used as an EXCUSE to shirk responsabilities!
    Sent from my MB526 using BubHub
    Nemmi I'm sorry you've had a rough trot. And even though we have different parenting styles I can tell you are a good mum who loves your child.

    That being said having a child with a man who isnt yet 21 greatly increases the chance of there being problems. A man under 21 asking to have kids would be a red flag for me regardless of how nice he seemed.

    Times are different nowdays and Men in particular aren't yet fully mature by that age. Living with them beforehand is good, but it doesn't protect against the man not yet being mature. This doesn't mean all young men will be deadbeat dads, it just increases the likelihood greatly of there being problems.

    If your partner is lazy around the house I would personally get that sorted before having any more kids.

    I don't mean to offend, as mentioned I think you are a great mum and wish you the best.

  9. #317
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    You strike me as a no bullsh*t type of person like me, one that won't put up crap, from our partners nor anyone. personally I find it an admirable trait and I like that I'm like that. My Dh says I'm feisty and he loves that.

    But.... some women lack the self esteem to boot him out. Some grew up in bad homes so it is normal. Sometimes he's charismatic and promises the world. She is left holding the responsibility, the child. She is left with sleepless nights, DC fees and school uniforms. That is her personal responsibility in the situation.

    I just won't and can't believe that staying in an abusive relationship (often out of fear) means it's her fault he runs like a dog shot in the behind later on.
    I agree. I just think encouraging the woman to self reflect can only help/empower? them ...to prevent them repeating the same mistakes.

  10. #318
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    ....but he did so he should fulfill his role?
    Yes.

  11. #319
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    Whichever way you put it, I don't believe a woman is ever responsible or to blame for being in an abusive relationship. Your posts just demonstrate a complete lack of understanding of abusive relationships and lack of empathy for those in them!

    How about the man taking responsibility of his emotions, instead of blaming others for his outbursts, and harming the woman he is supposed to love. Nope, I don't think I will ever blame a woman for that!

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    Why so much focus on what mothers should do? You argue that single mums should "take responsibility" for procreation (because raising the children isn't enough ) but none on the ones who are being deadbeat, lazy, and immature.

    Why place blame on those doing the right thing?

    I am actually lost at how single mums haven't taken responsibility!

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