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  1. #301
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    Quote Originally Posted by trishalishous View Post
    interesting article popped up on FB
    http://www.thescavenger.net/feminism...67554-508.html
    Interesting read thank you!

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Let's not whinge about the sperm donors ladies it doesn't do us any favours in a feminist thread .... (women have the ability to choose who they procreate with)
    For an intelligent person, you often publish posts that are inflammatory or ignorant.

    If a woman comes from a violent, controlling or abusive home, she often chooses a violent or controlling or abusive partner.

    Domestic violence rarely starts with a beating the first day, it insidious, it starts slowly, eroding the woman's confidence until she often starts to believe she caused it and deserves it. Often by which time theres children involved and leaving requires monumental strength. If a woman leaves a dv situation pregnant or with children the abusive father is one that rarely supports their family and is often the type of man referred to as a sperm donor.

    There are many many other scenarios that leaves a woman alone supporting a child(ren) when the 'father' doesn't/won't pay child support.

    Teaching our children about choice, rights, responsibility and respect is the only way their children will be adequately supported. The 'fathers' of today that don't support their children have earned the derrsive title of sperm donor as often that's as much as they will ever contribute to their child.

    The other thing is, you can't put the bubbles back into champagne. Your post reads to me that all the single mothers that don't have support have made their own bed, they chose the wrong father and ergo, by inference, they have nothing to complain about. And even if thats not what you meant, that is how I see what you said and I find it incredibly offensive and elitist.

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  4. #303
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Let's not whinge about the sperm donors ladies it doesn't do us any favours in a feminist thread .... (women have the ability to choose who they procreate with)
    People do change. The man (or woman) you partner may start out great. You start a family, and then they change into a jerk. You separate and they never see their child. How is that the fault of the custodial parent?

    In a general sense I somewhat agree with your feelings on personal responsibility. But what you have said in this thread is that a woman that stays with a violent man is responsible for not leaving. A woman with a lazy husband is responsible for making him contribute. A woman with a deadbeat ex should take responsibility bc she had kids with him. Where is the man's personal responsibility in all this? Shouldn't he take the rap for being abusive, lazy or a dead beat father?

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Let's not whinge about the sperm donors ladies it doesn't do us any favours in a feminist thread .... (women have the ability to choose who they procreate with)
    Women have no control over how their "sperm donor" may change over time. Women are not responsible for men who become violent or otherwise abusive. Women are not responsible for men who become lazy. Personal responsibility is one thing but I do thing you've taken it too far with your posts. Relationships, good and bad, are not clear cut black and white scenarios with a set of rules.
    The main standout though is that you seem a bit naive on the cycles of abuse. No one would give their number to a guy in a bar who walked up and punched her in the face. As a PP said, it's insidious and often victims of DV have grown up in DV affected families so see it as a norm. Anyway the cycle of abuse wheel is often a good basic starting point, here is a link for you: http://www.domesticviolence.org/violence-wheel/

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    I agree some men change into deadbeats post conception and that's not the women's fault. And domestic violence is never the woman's fault.

    At the same time I think there's a reasonable portion of women who can and should accept some responsibility for their kids having sperm donors instead of daddy's. Eg:
    - those who get pregnant by young men (under 23?) who may not be mature enough to raise a child/have not lived their lives
    - those who get pregnant by someone before they have enough time to really know them (and what sort of a father they will be)
    - those that gloss over little 'negative quirks' because they love their partners (eg don't help with the house cleaning, call them names). Then have kids/continue to have kids because they think/hope the partner will change or do not think things will get worse (negative quirks can be a sign of worse things to come).
    - women that do not use contraception (or use it incorrectly) when they are not as certain as they can be that their partner is good daddy material.

    I'm not saying that Single mothers are bad and shouldn't have kids. They have a bloody hard job and I don't know how they do it. And I'm not saying the kids will necessarily be worse off if they don't have a daddy in their lives.

    I'm just saying that on online forums plenty of women complain about their baby daddy and call them sperm donors. And I find it very hard to believe that out of all of those women, none of them share any responsibility for their baby having just a sperm donor. This is a feminist thread and i think its appropriate, if (where applicable), women own up to their part instead of just calling their baby daddy names.
    - women's rights are better served by encouraging females to take responsibility, make wise choices and learn from their mistakes (yes, no-ones perfect). Simply blaming the man takes power away from women.
    Last edited by VicPark; 12-08-2012 at 18:16.

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    No, it doesn't take power away from women, just responsibility from men!

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    Based on that argument, would you tell deadbeat dads who claim to be 'tricked' or forced into fatherhood that it's their fault bc they lay down with a woman who they didn't truly know, they should have worked out she was no good, and face up to their responsibility and provide for the kids they made?

    Personal responsibility and all...

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  14. #308
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    For what it's worth I've only even known 2 women to call the FOBs "sperm donors". In one instance he was a violent man and the woman spent years in a relationship that was abusive in every way. I met her when she was over 50 and worked with her for a while. She has escaped the relationship many years previously but you could still see the fear in her eyes when she talked about him and she told me she still had nightmares (even though she had been in a loving relationship for 10+ years). Her ex husband had no contact with either of her now adult children. The other woman I know who refers to the FOB as a sperm donor, her marriage fell apart not long after the baby was born. He has not seen the child since the marriage ended and the child is now a teenager. He provides something like $1.50 a week in child support. I think sperm donor is a fair term in these circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Based on that argument, would you tell deadbeat dads who claim to be 'tricked' or forced into fatherhood that it's their fault bc they lay down with a woman who they didn't truly know, they should have worked out she was no good, and face up to their responsibility and provide for the kids they made?

    Personal responsibility and all...
    I would tell the deadbeat dad that if he didn't want a child, or If he didn't know the woman well enough he should have worn a condom. Or not had sex.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I would tell the deadbeat dad that if he didn't want a child, or If he didn't know the woman well enough he should have worn a condom. Or not had sex.
    ....but he did so he should fulfill his role?


 

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