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  1. #241
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    I choose to be a stay at home mum (although I'm not loving right now) but it is still my choice. And back in the 70's, my dad was a stay at home dad for me - his and my mums choice and absolutely frowned on to the point she had to lie and say she didn't have a family. It is different if it is your choice, but a lot of women just don't have that choice, it is just what is expected. For me to even say that I don't love being a stay at home mum would have been considered ludicrous not so long ago. Now days they are just my feelings and valid feelings at that.

    I can see what delirium is saying - it is just so ingrained in us that we don't even questions a lot of these things. I consider myself a believer in feminist ideals - but when push comes to shove, my husband doesn't do much around the house and I can't be arsed making him do it, it is way too much effort, so I just do it myself - even though I despise housework. Somewhere in me, there is that little thing that just makes it too much effort to push for him to do equal parts in the house. When really, he shouldn't have to be pushed -everyone should be equal, everyone should just pitch in.

    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    Beebs - I agree with your post, I am referring to comments such as exhibit A below




    Comments such as this imply that women are expected to do all of these things, and to be perfectly frank I think demean those of us who choose not to be career women and choose to raise our kids instead.

  2. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    Why is it that people always assume that women are 'made' to take time off from work when the kids are sick or to raise their children. Our first child is due in January and I CHOOSE to leave my job to raise my kids. In fact I am soooo unbelievably excited about being able to stay home with my kids.
    .
    You get to choose - thats what Feminism has achieved for you - my mother and MIL both HAD to resign once they announced they were pregnant. My MIL was employed in a Fed Govt position and she didnt even announce she was engaged or married - once they found out she was married she received a small severence payout.

    My mother was unmarried at the time and once she said she was pregnant she was made to resign on the spot and lost her holiday pay in lieu of notice. Once my sister was born my mother she lied about having a family in order to get a job - detailing cars - the car yard had a policy of NOT employing women with families

    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post

    and.... I can't see a way for women to get past having time off when the baby is born other than finding some way for men to carry the babies for their entire gestation.
    What happened to women being proud of the fact that they are the only ones that can be pregnant and give birth.
    Yes, we cannot get past needing at least a day or so off for birthing unless we organise to only birth after 5pm Fridays. I was not ALLOWED to return to work after having DD without a Dr's certificate

    Oh and because of terms like 'in a delicate way' and 'baby brain' etc

  3. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post

    Comments such as this imply that women are expected to do all of these things, and to be perfectly frank I think demean those of us who choose not to be career women and choose to raise our kids instead.
    several thousands of years has ingrained upon women that their role in life is to cook, clean, raise babies and tend the house.

    Feminism supports the choice for women to do both or either or neither. There is NOTHING wrong with being a SAHM or a house-wife or a primary care giver or a Home Residential Technician OR an employee outside the home. The problem is when there is NO choice
    Last edited by WorkingClassMum; 09-08-2012 at 10:56. Reason: spelling, their, there, they're...

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  5. #244
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkingClassMum View Post
    several thousands of years has ingrained upon women that their role in life is to cook, clean, raise babies and tend the house.

    Feminism supports the choice for women to do both or either ar neither. There is NOTHING wrong with being a SAHM or a house-wife or a primary care giver or a Hoem residential technician OR an employee outside the home. The problem is when their is NO choice
    Yep this is what I've been saying, you jsut said it more succinctly than me

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  7. #245
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    So I'm probably coming across as anti-all the feminist principles here, which I am not. Equality needs to be achieved and I still think it's a long way off. But I think we need to be careful in that it doesn't go too far the other way in that women feel like they are EXPECTED to return to the workforce after having kids.

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  9. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bongley View Post
    Yes! Exactly this. Thats why when people are turned off feminism because of the man bashing.....its not feminism! Its the opposite, its pandering to a patriarchal way of thinking. The irony kills me.

    A patriarchal society is so much more complicated than men oppressing women. Its a whole system that puts women AND men in their place and both men and women contribute to that system.

    If you think we don't live in a patriarchal society then why do men very, very, very rarely take a womans last name? We can all say its our choice now but there are not so subtle cultural pressures that sway us. Why don't men have more paternity rights and pay, why aren't they encouraged to take more paternity leave? Why is it more women who work part-time? Most women stop breastfeeding before 6 months, so it isn't just that. Its all coming but its all so damn slow.

    Feminism is still relevant in our society, it benefits men and women. And its certainly relevant on a global scale, look at the female Saudi runner at the Olympics, first one *allowed* to compete. All the female atheletes had to walk behind the men at the opening ceremony!

    I think not to define yourself as a feminist, fair enough but to actually say you are NOT a feminist is to somehow reject it, as though it is something negative.

    Ah gee, I ramble.
    The Olympics have actually opened the eyes of a few friends of mine who have maintained (until recently) that we don't need feminism anymore. There have been a few incidents surrounding the current games which highlight the opinion that female athletes are beneath their male counterparts.

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  11. #247
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    But it won't go too far, feminism is about choice, choice for us to do what we want to do, it is not about forcing women back into the workforce, or looking down on women who want to be a SAHM, or looking down on women who "choose" to be subservient to their husbands. All it is is fighting for us to have the choice not to do anything that we don't want to do.

    I for one am deeply grateful for the women who were before us, who fought for our rights. Imagine not being able to vote. How insulting.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkingClassMum View Post
    several thousands of years has ingrained upon women that their role in life is to cook, clean, raise babies and tend the house.

    Feminism supports the choice for women to do both or either or neither. There is NOTHING wrong with being a SAHM or a house-wife or a primary care giver or a Home Residential Technician OR an employee outside the home. The problem is when there is NO choice
    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    So I'm probably coming across as anti-all the feminist principles here, which I am not. Equality needs to be achieved and I still think it's a long way off. But I think we need to be careful in that it doesn't go too far the other way in that women feel like they are EXPECTED to return to the workforce after having kids.
    Last edited by beebs; 09-08-2012 at 11:16. Reason: sp

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  13. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    So I'm probably coming across as anti-all the feminist principles here, which I am not. Equality needs to be achieved and I still think it's a long way off. But I think we need to be careful in that it doesn't go too far the other way in that women feel like they are EXPECTED to return to the workforce after having kids.
    Equality is NOT achieved if the choice is removed and the expectation of staying home is replaced with another onerous expectation of returning to work.

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    The choice of whether to stay at home or go back to work may remain. But women already are starting to feel like someone is expecting them to go back to work, or they are expected to put their babies into daycare one or two days a week even if they are a SAHM. Many things in this topic are not so black and white as to whether they do or do not have a choice, there are emotions involved.
    I never said that women will lose the choice of whether to go back to work or not, I said they will FEEL like they are expected to go back to work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    Comments such as this imply that women are expected to do all of these things, and to be perfectly frank I think demean those of us who choose not to be career women and choose to raise our kids instead.
    I think it's fantastic that you have chosen to stay at home and raise your kids!!!!! You deserve a big round of applause for doing so and it's a perfectly valid choice.

    I personally believe that feminism isn't about expectations, but the right to choose what is right for you without being judged.

    If that happens to be going back to work and finding an alternative means of care for your children, then you have the same right to not be judged, as you don't deserve to be judged for choosing to raise your kids and not work.

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