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  1. #231
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    Beebs - I agree with your post, I am referring to comments such as exhibit A below


    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    Yep I agree, women tend to more attracted to those jobs bc of flexible hours. But the question here is (in a partnered relationship) why is it always the woman whose career has to take a back seat? Bc that's what's expected of us. Men continue to work, unabated, having no time off. The child is sick, the woman takes the time off work. She is often relagated to a job with less pay, that she doesn't really like.

    Why don't we see more men taking the night fill while their wives rise the corporate ladder? bc imo a 'good' woman puts her kids first.

    Bc the issues run far deeper than just a lazy husband. Again, women are told they are the primary care givers, working or not. It's become an ingrained thing thru literally a thousand years that the kids and house are a woman's job. Feminism seeks to not only free women of that, but to help men understand that in this modern age a decent husband shares the load.
    Comments such as this imply that women are expected to do all of these things, and to be perfectly frank I think demean those of us who choose not to be career women and choose to raise our kids instead.

  2. #232
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    I don't see how Del's comment is demeaning. Its true that women are expected to be the primary caregiver and be the one to take time off for illnesses etc.

  3. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    Comments such as this imply that women are expected to do all of these things, and to be perfectly frank I think demean those of us who choose not to be career women and choose to raise our kids instead.
    No I really don't think that was the implication from Delirium's post. She is saying that women should be freely able to do all of those things IF they choose to. At the moment, society STILL sees women only as being the primary caregivers, with huge obstacles to career progression that men simply don't face. No one is saying women MUST want these things - only that if they do, it should be as open to them as it is to their male counterparts.

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  5. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    I saw this today, ironically

    Attachment 25260
    Yes! Exactly this. Thats why when people are turned off feminism because of the man bashing.....its not feminism! Its the opposite, its pandering to a patriarchal way of thinking. The irony kills me.

    A patriarchal society is so much more complicated than men oppressing women. Its a whole system that puts women AND men in their place and both men and women contribute to that system.

    If you think we don't live in a patriarchal society then why do men very, very, very rarely take a womans last name? We can all say its our choice now but there are not so subtle cultural pressures that sway us. Why don't men have more paternity rights and pay, why aren't they encouraged to take more paternity leave? Why is it more women who work part-time? Most women stop breastfeeding before 6 months, so it isn't just that. Its all coming but its all so damn slow.

    Feminism is still relevant in our society, it benefits men and women. And its certainly relevant on a global scale, look at the female Saudi runner at the Olympics, first one *allowed* to compete. All the female atheletes had to walk behind the men at the opening ceremony!

    I think not to define yourself as a feminist, fair enough but to actually say you are NOT a feminist is to somehow reject it, as though it is something negative.

    Ah gee, I ramble.

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  7. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post

    Comments such as this imply that women are expected to do all of these things, and to be perfectly frank I think demean those of us who choose not to be career women and choose to raise our kids instead.
    lol I'm a SAHM, have been about 6 years.... by choice. Please don't assume. I subscribe to certain aspects of 3rd wave that says choice for women in the 21 century is what we should be pushing for. Choice to stay home, choice to wear a whort skirt, choice to work.

    I'm simply saying that for women that do work, that they are usually the ones left to take sick days. Some women WANT to work, some have to. As SAHM's we are no better than working mums and that is your insinuation.

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  9. #236
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    Oh I agree! I can't stand the way people reduce men to incapable morons. We let them run the world, but lol, they can't work a washing machine. I like my man because he is smart and funny and I can have fabulous debates with him, he is very capable and so am I. Like that Marriage show that's coming on soon, I can't remember it's name but it's something about, "what if men organised your wedding", and it shows a stripper coming out of the cake, the bride with a pint of beer, and more stereotypes I can't remember. That annoys me just as much as stereotypes against women. I don't think all men are buffoons.

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  11. #237
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    I disagree, I don't think women are expected to do that. I think women FEEL the expectation to do it, but I don't necessarily think that the expectation is actually there. And whilst women statistically do the majority of housework I would like to see the stats on statistically who does the most manual labour around the house such as mowing the lawn etc.
    I do the majority of housework in the house but DH does the yard. I also know equal number of people that have fairly equal relationships in the home. My brother and SIL took shared time off so that one of them was home for the first 12 months of my nephews life.
    I think a big part of the issue is that women feel that they shouldn't need to ask for things around the hosue to be done, partners should just 'offer' to do it. As many people on here have already mentioned we are dealing with behaviour that has been around for years and I think a lot of women would find if they asked their partner to do something they would.

  12. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    lol I'm a SAHM, have been about 6 years.... by choice. Please don't assume. I subscribe to certain aspects of 3rd wave that says choice for women in the 21 century is what we should be pushing for. Choice to stay home, choice to wear a whort skirt, choice to work.

    I'm simply saying that for women that do work, that they are usually the ones left to take sick days. Some women WANT to work, some have to. As SAHM's we are no better than working mums and that is your insinuation.
    I'm not implying at all that we are better than working mums. I am saying that IMO comments such as this make a lot of women feel like they 'should' be going back to work, not staying at home. Most women I know who have gone back to work when they dont really want to do so because they feel like they SHOULD be going back to work.

  13. #239
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    It's pretty simple to me, feminism is the want for equal rights for men and women. Not the want for them to be the same, but for equal rights under the law, to have the same opportunity and the same freedom to be able to achieve whatever they desire. Simple.

    Next year my husband and I will be working for the same "company" but statistically speaking his ability to get promoted will far outstrip mine because he's male, women typically get promoted slower in our field, that's just the way it is, so to ever outrank him I'll have to work bloody hard while he just has to show up.

    Really? Fair? Not even.

  14. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    I'm not implying at all that we are better than working mums. I am saying that IMO comments such as this make a lot of women feel like they 'should' be going back to work, not staying at home. Most women I know who have gone back to work when they dont really want to do so because they feel like they SHOULD be going back to work.
    Where did I say that? or even implied it? I was simply discussing how in a work setting, that women are still not equal to men. There was no judgment or hidden agenda downing the choice to stay at home. Anyone that's been here long enough knows I'm very outspoken for SAHM's.

    We were discussing how men and women weren't equal and I talked about the experiences of a working mum and how they differ to a working dad. That's all.


 

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