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  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petulia View Post

    The definition of feminism is:
    The advocacy of women's rights on the grounds of political, social, and economic equality to men.
    Ok, based on this definition of feminism, I guess we have to acknowledge that a lot of women who believe in equality of the sexes aren’t actually feminists, because they don’t actively advocate for the cause. That definition states that feminism isn’t merely a belief, it requires advocacy, which is a different thing.

    ETA. So, in theory someone could say that they believe in feminist ideals, but they aren't a feminist.
    Last edited by Meg2; 08-08-2012 at 12:59.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Ok, based on this definition of feminism, I guess we have to acknowledge that a lot of women who believe in equality of the sexes aren’t actually feminists, because they don’t actively advocate for the cause. That definition states that feminism isn’t merely a belief, it requires advocacy, which is a different thing.

    ETA. So, in theory someone could say that they believe in feminism, but they aren't a feminist.
    Depends on the definition of advocacy then? An advocate doesn't have to actively promote their cause, the gentle art of persuasion is also seen as advocacy as much as the political promotion of a cause.

    I think a woman who knows her own mind, is happy with her choices knowing she has choices and lives a quite life as an example can be just as much as a feminist as the popular view of a hairy legged bra burning screaming radical. A feminist knows they has choices and exercises those choices and expects theses choices to be honored. A man can easily and happily be a feminist and be a SAHD or a CEO - his choices are respected and he won't be considered less of a man for exercising those choices and more that a female counterpart who makes the same choices.

    Some times being active is saying nothing - and being positive and being a positive satisfied role model.

    Feminism is as much for men to have choices and not be belittled for 'having a feminine side' as much as its for women to have equal choices and not be belittled for being 'strong'. Feminism recognizes men are more that testosterone behind a penis as much as it recognizes women and not subservience wrapped around a vagina.

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  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Ok, based on this definition of feminism, I guess we have to acknowledge that a lot of women who believe in equality of the sexes aren’t actually feminists, because they don’t actively advocate for the cause. That definition states that feminism isn’t merely a belief, it requires advocacy, which is a different thing.

    ETA. So, in theory someone could say that they believe in feminist ideals, but they aren't a feminist.
    To be pedantic, a feminist is someone who believes in the principles of feminism. Feminism is the cause/movement/whatever you want to call it, a feminist is someone who believes in the principles of the cause. So, someone who believes in the principles of feminism but does not advocate for the cause is still a feminist.

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  6. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petulia View Post
    To be pedantic, a feminist is someone who believes in the principles of feminism. Feminism is the cause/movement/whatever you want to call it, a feminist is someone who believes in the principles of the cause. So, someone who believes in the principles of feminism but does not advocate for the cause is still a feminist.
    Well, I was going on the definition of feminism that was given above (and which is in my dictionary too); if feminism is the advocacy, then a feminist is the advocate.

    This really is me just splitting hairs though. And, as WorkingClassMum said, it really does depend on the definition of advocacy. I often don't talk about feminism, but I live my life by feminist principles, so does that make me an advocate? Some people would say yes, some would say no. I'm just trying to look at the original question and see why people wouldn't identify as a feminist, and I think the advocacy part might be why (for some anyway).
    Last edited by Meg2; 08-08-2012 at 15:14.

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  8. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    VicPark, I completely see that the 'balls' comment was a joke - I have no issue with that. The only issue I have with your words is when you say "If women spent half as much time just joining in with society", it sort of implies that "society" is something that we must join and accept as is, rather than something that we are already part of and contributing to the evolution of. I am part of this society, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept values that I disagree with, no matter how well entrenched they are.
    I agree with you. By 'joining in' I meant seeing yourself as just a human being not as a woman. Women isolating ourselves only hurts the equal rights agenda.

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  10. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorkingClassMum View Post
    So why use a masculine inference when referring to strength? Obviously you don't understand that to even imply balls=strength as a joke proves you see men as physically stronger ergo women need to 'man' up to be treated equally.

    You totally discredited your entire argument by using such a term in your post.


    ETA: upon reflection I am sure you've used this reference to balls intentionally to spark annoyance or anger and not to further the debate along reasonable lines. Someone as intelligent as you come across would know that this would upset people and cloud the debate rather than add to it in a sensible fashion.
    ...

    Feminism isn't just about how women in a privilege country like Australia are still treated as second class citizens ( and yes I acknowledge there are even more vunerable people treated far far worse in this rich privilege western country) - its also about supporting women in other countries who are treated far worse than animals, having no rights.

    Women being leaders in this country inspire women in this country and also in other countries to demand equal rights. If you do nothing else except stand up for your rights to equality (including the rights to choice) in this country at the very least you are a yard stick for woman both in Australia AND in other countries.
    I think people need to get a sense of humor and not take things so literally/seriously. I was going to Say 'harden up' then realised the feminist mafia probably wouldnt like that either as the saying can be traced back to .. Err males. Life's to short to get knickers in a knot over a tongue in cheek play on words.

    I agree with the last few paras of your post, about being an example/helping out women in countries who are worse off.
    Last edited by VicPark; 08-08-2012 at 16:39.

  11. #187
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    Who is this "feminist mafia" that you speak of? Some women post a few posts and say they believe in feminist ideals and all of a sudden you are calling them feminist mafia?

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I think people need to get a sense of humor and not take things so literally/seriously. I was going to Say 'harden up' then realised the feminist mafia probably wouldnt like that either as the saying can be traced back to .. Err males. Life's to short to get knickers in a knot over a tongue in cheek play on words.

    I agree with the last few paras of your post, about being an example/helping out women in countries who are worse off.

  12. #188
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    I haven't read any of the responses. But I always have a laugh at women that say they are anti feminist, that they are bra burners, they've put the women's movement back blah blah..... then happily exercise their right to vote, the right to have freedom of speech, the choice to either work or stay home and stand up for women to charge abusive husbands... all which have come about directly from feminism lol

    So for those against feminism.... are you happy to go back to the time of pre suffrage when your husband can beat and own you and you don't get to vote??

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  14. #189
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    I dont think anyone (bar one person) said they are *against* or anti feminist.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using BubHub

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meg2 View Post
    Well, I was going on the definition of feminism that was given above (and which is in my dictionary too); if feminism is the advocacy, then a feminist is the advocate.

    This really is me just splitting hairs though. And, as WorkingClassMum said, it really does depend on the definition of advocacy. I often don't talk about feminism, but I live my life by feminist principles, so does that make me an advocate? Some people would say yes, some would say no. I'm just trying to look at the original question and see why people wouldn't identify as a feminist, and I think the advocacy part might be why (for some anyway).
    I'm prone to splitting hairs on occasion too, must go to my hairdresser to get that looked at
    I agree, it does depend on the definition of advocacy. I guess most people think of advocates as those that publicly defend or support a person or cause, but I think (no definitions here), like WorkingClassMum, that you also show your support for something you believe in by your actions and the way you live your life. And, whether someone speaks about their principles or not, they might still speak out about something if it did not sit quite right with these principles. I think that is also a kind of advocacy.
    Maybe it's the way some people go about 'advocating' for feminism that puts some people off (i.e., usually misusing the term usually for their own agenda)?


 

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