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  1. #161
    Eko's Avatar
    Eko is offline Acrobatic Dominatrix.
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    Or i could be wrong and it could have all started to go south while I was typing my essay... I really need to learn to keep up *dies of laughter*.

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  3. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    You see "balls" as "strength" despite how inherently strong women are. "We have no balls" is an insult, despite the fact we birth children! That's the ish with your statement. It's insulting.
    I think it's even more than this. Using the expressiong "to have balls" to donote strength just perpetuates the myth that we have to be like men to be strong, powerful, independent persons. The expression is an example of ingrained gender inbalances in our language which are then reflected in society. Why do we need testicles to do this when testicles are soft and easily damaged? If we want to use sexual organs to denote strength surely the best organ to use to illustrate strength and resiliance is the uterus!

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  5. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    I think it's even more than this. Using the expressiong "to have balls" to donote strength just perpetuates the myth that we have to be like men to be strong, powerful, independent persons. The expression is an example of ingrained gender inbalances in our language which are then reflected in society. Why do we need testicles to do this when testicles are soft and easily damaged? If we want to use sexual organs to denote strength surely the best organ to use to illustrate strength and resiliance is the uterus!
    Or perhaps it just means I don't give a hoot about labels, and can take a joke. If women spent half as much time just joining in with society instead of chattering about how hard done by women are, language gender imbalance etc... Then there wouldn't be a 'need' for a feminism
    Movement.

  6. #164
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    Eko is offline Acrobatic Dominatrix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ~Bec~ View Post
    The expression is an example of ingrained gender inbalances in our language which are then reflected in society. Why do we need testicles to do this when testicles are soft and easily damaged? If we want to use sexual organs to denote strength surely the best organ to use to illustrate strength and resiliance is the uterus!
    But what you're suggesting is also using a gender imbalance. If we want to use descriptive words that promote a balance of gender equality, we can't use any word that's specific to a particular gender.
    Otherwise we're just doing what they've done right back. That's not equality, that's tit-for-tat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    But what you're suggesting is also using a gender imbalance. If we want to use descriptive words that promote a balance of gender equality, we can't use any word that's specific to a particular gender.
    Otherwise we're just doing what they've done right back. That's not equality, that's tit-for-tat.
    Exactly. We shouldn't be thinking in terms of penises and vaginas. We're all human beings.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Exactly. We shouldn't be thinking in terms of penises and vaginas. We're all human beings.
    So why use a masculine inference when referring to strength? Obviously you don't understand that to even imply balls=strength as a joke proves you see men as physically stronger ergo women need to 'man' up to be treated equally.

    You totally discredited your entire argument by using such a term in your post.


    ETA: upon reflection I am sure you've used this reference to balls intentionally to spark annoyance or anger and not to further the debate along reasonable lines. Someone as intelligent as you come across would know that this would upset people and cloud the debate rather than add to it in a sensible fashion.
    ...

    Feminism isn't just about how women in a privilege country like Australia are still treated as second class citizens ( and yes I acknowledge there are even more vunerable people treated far far worse in this rich privilege western country) - its also about supporting women in other countries who are treated far worse than animals, having no rights.

    Women being leaders in this country inspire women in this country and also in other countries to demand equal rights. If you do nothing else except stand up for your rights to equality (including the rights to choice) in this country at the very least you are a yard stick for woman both in Australia AND in other countries.
    Last edited by WorkingClassMum; 08-08-2012 at 09:47.

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    VicPark, I completely see that the 'balls' comment was a joke - I have no issue with that. The only issue I have with your words is when you say "If women spent half as much time just joining in with society", it sort of implies that "society" is something that we must join and accept as is, rather than something that we are already part of and contributing to the evolution of. I am part of this society, but that doesn't mean that I have to accept values that I disagree with, no matter how well entrenched they are.
    Last edited by Meg2; 08-08-2012 at 09:51. Reason: typo

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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    Different to what?

    Hang on a tic... so you actually believe all women are treated equally to men?

    And it's all in our silly little feminist minds? We make it up for fun?

    Is that what you're getting at? Because if so, maybe you should read over some sexual abuse statistics... domestic abuse statistics... employment statistics...

    ETA: Just re read your post... you actually seem to be saying it is the woman's fault when she is raped/beaten/discriminated against (these are hate crimes which feminism fights against)? It is the woman setting herself up for believing she is different? Gosh.
    In regards to the sexual abuse and domestic abuse stats, keep in mind that the statistics for men in this case are most certainly under reported. There is an awful lot more support given to women who are in abusive relationships than to men who are in abusive relationships. I personally know a couple of guys who were in seriously abusive relationships and it was hell for them trying to get out of them, and the support was non-existent.

    ETA: I find it interesting that people have a problem with someone using a masculine inference to denote strength but have no problem labelling everyone who supports equality between the genders as feminists even though it has a feminine inference.

    As I have said before, for me I just don't like labels, I have no problem with the movement or the principles of feminism and for those of you that feel the absolute need to 'label' someone, go ahead and label me as a feminist. But the best comparison for me would be that I also support environmental causes and try to do my part to take care of the environment, but please don't call me a 'greenie'. Same deal, and I think we have ascertained it that most women who prefer not do identify as 'feminists' have no problem with the cause, we just don't like the label.
    Last edited by Grebbeci; 08-08-2012 at 10:06.

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    I find this whole "I'm not a feminist, I'm an equalist" such a specious argument.

    I assume when people say "equalist", they mean something like egalitarian - equality for everybody, but it's not specifically a gender issue.

    But you can also be a feminist. The continuing disadvantage and discrimination that women experience means that we need our own label and our own definition to focus on improving the status of women.

    Women don't get paid as much, they don't get the senior roles, they are beaten and murdered by the men in their lives and just get dismissed by police and authorities (did anybody see Four Corners last week?), they are raped and dealt with badly by the justice system, there is an excessive focus on how women look rather than who they are.

    When I look at little girls and little boys around 3 (my son's age), the girls are often well emotionally developed and capable, while the boys are often bashing trucks together and running around in circles. Whatever happens along the way that results in men running our society needs to be addressed, which is why it's dangerous to abandon feminism.

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    I don't think women should have to fight for respect, that should be a given. I think this is why society does need feminism and to challenge gender roles.

    I always find the buck is passed. Some men won't do their share of housework? That's their wives fault for not demanding he do it. Of course, it couldn't be his doing for being a slacker and disrespecting his wife!

    Grebecci, the fact that assault by females toward males is underreported is another reason why we need feminism. To put an end to this "stronger/weaker sex" argument and not make men feel ashamed for their feelings and not be ashamed to admit if they have been assaulted.

    DV statistics for women are also grossly underreported, especially sexual assault. There is still a lot of shame for women and we are often blamed if we are sexually assaulted. I used to come here for support but learned very quickly I cannot talk about when I was sexually harrassed at work or when I was assaulted as a teen because I am accused of not fighting back hard enough or somehow inviting it.

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