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  1. #131
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    I guess I am more passionately "feminist" because I am a woman. Like a black person may be more passionate about racism, and a gay person may be more passionate about the gay rights movement.

  2. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I hope that it will be a reality. I can't say that I utterly believe it though, it seems to me that we as humans are getting worse and worse in every aspect, towards each other, towards the environment etc. It doesn't mean it isn't worth fighting for - because it is.

    What I was getting at is just because I am a feminist doesn't mean that it is the only thing I identify with, it is not the only thing that defines me by a long shot. I think I just break mine down into categories, easier to navigate that way.
    I agree, sometimes it seems things are just way bigger than we could possibly change.
    And I kind of understand why cutting it down into bite-sized chunks of various 'ism-s' could actually make it more manageable.

    I guess I'm just one of those people that likes to think big and work out how to make the possible, possible. Rather than starting with reality and working from that *chuckle*.

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  4. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    That was the point I was getting at .
    Someone that is Egalitarian is also by definition a Feminist, that's a part of the idea of equality for all. But someone who is a Feminist is not by necessarily also an Egalitarian.

    What amuses me is that there are several people saying they're Feminists but they want equality for everyone. They also say that people who don't identify with Feminism don't actually understand Feminism, but that doesn't make a person not Feminist.
    I think many of the people making those claims are actually Egalitarians, they just don't realise it! I suspect many are actually Feminists that don't have any interest in the equality of other groups simply because their problems have no impact on women's rights.

    Either way, I think Feminism is definitely worth fighting for. It's just that women's rights take no precedence over anyone else's for me. Everyone deserves the same equality .
    You have a great way with words I totally agree ... And I hope this helps other posters understand

  5. #134
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    Eko you yourself said you are an egalitarian but not a feminist, but your last post states that an egalitarian, by definition, is also a feminist.

    I think people read too much into it. The 'fem' part is what people have an issue with.

    I take no issue with the Black Panthers, Aboriginal rights activists, trade unions who help the working class, animal rights activists - I would never claim that just because they work/fight for a certain right that they don't care about the others. I don't understand the thought the feminists don't care about others rights actually, in my experience it's the opposite. Whenever I visit the women's health centre (and rape crisis centre) there are many books on feminism. It is run by feminists. But I also notice equally the literature is about gay rights, Aboriginal rights, and so on.

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  7. #135
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grebbeci View Post
    But boys are not picked on or ridiculed for being feminine because it's seen as being weak to be female, they are picked on and ridiculed because it's seen as weak to be a homosexual, (just to note that this is not an opinion I hold). It's the equality between gays and lesbians that needs to be established before young boys can avoid being picked on for being feminine. And on that issue I think that lesbians are accepted far more easily into society than gay males.
    A masculine woman is rarely a complimentary thing either.

  8. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartiecat View Post
    Well it's kind of like saying you are vegetarian and vegan isn't it??
    No, not really. Because to say you are egalitarian but not feminist is to say you are vegan but not vegetarian.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    Eko you yourself said you are an egalitarian but not a feminist, but your last post states that an egalitarian, by definition, is also a feminist.

    I think people read too much into it. The 'fem' part is what people have an issue with.

    I take no issue with the Black Panthers, Aboriginal rights activists, trade unions who help the working class, animal rights activists - I would never claim that just because they work/fight for a certain right that they don't care about the others. I don't understand the thought the feminists don't care about others rights actually, in my experience it's the opposite. Whenever I visit the women's health centre (and rape crisis centre) there are many books on feminism. It is run by feminists. But I also notice equally the literature is about gay rights, Aboriginal rights, and so on.
    You're right, I did contradict myself a little didn't I? I'm trying to make sense as I go and clearly not doing so well there .

    I guess I'm getting hung up on titles. I don't like to be called a 'Feminist' because the definition of Feminist is someone that is concerned with the rights of women. I'm concerned with the rights of everyone, and that's why I call myself an Egalitarian instead.
    So I guess there's a Feminist lurking within me, but it's such a minor part of my beliefs that being put into the Feminist box (as many people will do to themselves) is extremely restrictive and not entirely true for me.

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  11. #138
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    This might be a bit ‘out there’, but I read a bunch of stuff recently that talked about the ‘feminist’ movement of the 60s, 70s and 80s (this was after the first wave of feminism, which gave us the right to vote, own property etc) only being able to gain traction in the areas that supported the capitalist economy, i.e. the ‘right’ of women to go out into the workforce instead of being a SAHM. This aspect of the movement was supported by corporations who liked the idea of more consumers with less time to cook and clean for themselves, therefore needing to buy more products. Although there was a lot more to the movement, the main****** message to come out of this back in the eighties was that traditionally male work was superior, and traditionally female work was inferior – therefore ‘liberated’ women should go out into the paid workforce and try to take on a traditionally male role as much as possible. Unfortunately, I think this is the only message that a lot people associate with feminism today.


    As a PP said, there is a definite backlash against this now, with women (feminists) reclaiming the right to make family or other traditionally female roles the focus of their work. I think it is a really important movement, which is trying to make the work that has traditionally been done by women valued in the same was as work that was traditionally done by men.


    Because feminism has gone through so many ‘waves’ (we are up to ‘third-wave feminism’ now), it is a really difficult term to pin down as it means different things to different people. Although I’m quite happy to call myself a feminist, I know when I do I’ll have to explain to people what I mean by that (i.e. I’m not a man-hater!) That in itself means that the word has become a lot less useful – and I’m not at all surprised that a lot of women these days don’t want to have to explain what they mean by ‘feminism’, therefore they don’t use the word. I think it’s perfectly legitimate to explain your ideals using different words rather than calling yourself a feminist.

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  13. #139
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    What amuses me is that there are several people saying they're Feminists but they want equality for everyone. They also say that people who don't identify with Feminism don't actually understand Feminism, but that doesn't make a person not Feminist.
    I think many of the people making those claims are actually Egalitarians, they just don't realise it! I suspect many are actually Feminists that don't have any interest in the equality of other groups simply because their problems have no impact on women's rights.
    I think most people who have said they are feminists would also say that they are egalitarian too. It's just that this thread was talking about feminism - that's all.

    And to me it's weird to say "I'm egalitarian, but not feminist" - because that's like saying "I'm egalitarian - except when it comes to same sex marriage/ racism, etc."

    All of these things are important to me.

    I would never say that I was NOT an advocate for gay rights, racial equality, or feminism (to pick random examples). I support all of those things. You can't be egalitarian and not support them.

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  15. #140
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    You're right, I did contradict myself a little didn't I? I'm trying to make sense as I go and clearly not doing so well there .

    I guess I'm getting hung up on titles. I don't like to be called a 'Feminist' because the definition of Feminist is someone that is concerned with the rights of women. I'm concerned with the rights of everyone, and that's why I call myself an Egalitarian instead.
    So I guess there's a Feminist lurking within me, but it's such a minor part of my beliefs that being put into the Feminist box (as many people will do to themselves) is extremely restrictive and not entirely true for me.
    I think it's fair enough if someone doesn't identify as a feminist they don't call themself one. My mind just boggles sometimes that feminists are so often accused of not caring about the rights of others yet I've never heard of an animal rights activist who works for RSPCA being slammed - "you only care about the animals, what about me".

    A lot of people have a plight or campaign that they are passionate about. For a lot of people (men and women) this is feminism. For some it's poverty. For others it might be homelessness. This doesn't mean that they don't care about the other problems of the world.

    I'm a feminist for a myriad of reasons, because I do believe that society's gender stereotypes are harmful for both men and women, but I am also strongly passionate about the rights of our Indigenous, working class, children, equal marriage. Just to name a few.

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