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  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    (My bolded).

    You say it's not sorted for women and that until it is, we still need to fight for equality.
    But you also say that an egalitarian society is a dream, giving the impression that you think it's either unlikely, or imaginary and therefore not able to be a reality.

    So from what you've said, you'll fight for the equality of women, but not everyone else because you either feel it can't happen, or won't ever come about?
    That confuses me. Why would you feel that a society where women are equal is worth fighting for and able to be a reality, and yet a society where EVERYone is an equal is not something that could happen?

    (This is a genuine, healthy curiosity, I'm not trying to offend at all!).
    I took it as beebs meaning that an Egalitarian Society is THE dream, like the ultimate, and that feminism and the fight for women's equality is a step toward that, but we can't attain such a society until we've completed each step iykwim? I may be wrong but that's how I read her post.

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  3. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    Really? How cool!
    Yup, I guess I just didn't quite get the meaning (bit silly of me I guess) and thought it was all more of the extremist side. But I feel much more educated on the matter now

  4. #123
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    FearlessLeader is offline Winner 2013 - Most Memorable Thread
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    "Egalitarianism is a trend of thought that favors equality among living entities. Egalitarian doctrines maintain that all humans are equal in fundamental worth or social status." This is me.

    "Feminism
    is a collection of movements aimed at defining, establishing, and defending equal political, economic, and social rights for women." This is not me.

    The reason that I make the distinction is that Feminism is SOLELY about equality for women. Whilst it's a noble cause that is not the only thing I care about.
    Someone can tell me I'm a feminist all they like. I'm not. It might be part of my ethos but that title certainly doesn't define my entire moral compass. My focus isn't that narrow.

    I agree that I want equality for women. Just as I want equality for everyone, regardless of gender, age, sexual orientation or any other variable you want to throw in there. Women don't take precedence just because they've been oppressed in the past (and still are at times, I'm not naive). Many people have been oppressed for many reasons. Focusing on one group as more deserving of equality activism seems like saying that they're more deserving of equal rights than anyone else that's been oppressed.

    Everyone is deserving of those rights, not just the group with the loudest voices or the most backing.
    why can't you be both? I strongly agree that anyone can identify with whatever they want- I don't have any problems with people not identifying with the term feminism for reasons such as you stated above- or as PPs have said, just because they don't like labels. But what's wrong with being both egalitarian and feminist? And Jewish, and vegan, and liberal, and an environmentalist, and a dog person?

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  6. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mrs Maker View Post
    Yup, I guess I just didn't quite get the meaning (bit silly of me I guess) and thought it was all more of the extremist side. But I feel much more educated on the matter now
    Not at all. Some extremists have given feminism a bad rap and don't even it the term themselves so it's easy to see why some people don't like the term

  7. #125
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    I hope that it will be a reality. I can't say that I utterly believe it though, it seems to me that we as humans are getting worse and worse in every aspect, towards each other, towards the environment etc. It doesn't mean it isn't worth fighting for - because it is.

    What I was getting at is just because I am a feminist doesn't mean that it is the only thing I identify with, it is not the only thing that defines me by a long shot. I think I just break mine down into categories, easier to navigate that way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    (My bolded).

    You say it's not sorted for women and that until it is, we still need to fight for equality.
    But you also say that an egalitarian society is a dream, giving the impression that you think it's either unlikely, or imaginary and therefore not able to be a reality.

    So from what you've said, you'll fight for the equality of women, but not everyone else because you either feel it can't happen, or won't ever come about?
    That confuses me. Why would you feel that a society where women are equal is worth fighting for and able to be a reality, and yet a society where EVERYone is an equal is not something that could happen?

    (This is a genuine, healthy curiosity, I'm not trying to offend at all!).

  8. #126
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    People can be a feminist AND an Aboriginal rights activist. You can be a feminist and fight for the rights of the working class.

    I'm a feminist and I work in an industry where I assist predominantly men - I help them find counselling etc.

    Being a feminist doesn't exclude everybody else. I've never heard anyone say that people who work for DoCS don't give a crap about adults. It's just not true. We need people to work in certain sectors of society to help segments of the community.

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  10. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by tiggerfields View Post
    That's great for you. But not all women have that right. And THAT is why we still need feminism.
    Did I need to clarify that I have no issue with feminists or feminism. I am grateful for feminism and grateful to feminists and appreciate that equality for all women is still being fought for.

    The women I admire most indentify themselves as feminist.

    Im just saying I don't identify myself as being "a feminist".

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  12. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by FearlessLeader View Post
    why can't you be both? I strongly agree that anyone can identify with whatever they want- I don't have any problems with people not identifying with the term feminism for reasons such as you stated above- or as PPs have said, just because they don't like labels. But what's wrong with being both egalitarian and feminist? And Jewish, and vegan, and liberal, and an environmentalist, and a dog person?
    Well it's kind of like saying you are vegetarian and vegan isn't it??

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  14. #129
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    Though if someone said "hey rach you totally are a feminist" I'm not going to be deeply offended... (unless they meant to offend me) But it's not a label I would give myself.

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  15. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Smartiecat View Post
    Well it's kind of like saying you are vegetarian and vegan isn't it??
    That was the point I was getting at .
    Someone that is Egalitarian is also by definition a Feminist, that's a part of the idea of equality for all. But someone who is a Feminist is not by necessarily also an Egalitarian.

    What amuses me is that there are several people saying they're Feminists but they want equality for everyone. They also say that people who don't identify with Feminism don't actually understand Feminism, but that doesn't make a person not Feminist.
    I think many of the people making those claims are actually Egalitarians, they just don't realise it! I suspect many are actually Feminists that don't have any interest in the equality of other groups simply because their problems have no impact on women's rights.

    Either way, I think Feminism is definitely worth fighting for. It's just that women's rights take no precedence over anyone else's for me. Everyone deserves the same equality .


 

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