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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by Savingfishfromdrowning View Post
    The research said that there was no difference between children who had been in childcare and those that had not. The article quoted 3 separate studies to support this finding.

    If you firmly believe that childcare for young children can damage them emotionally maybe you should also provide three pieces of research to suppport your opinion?
    Based on the article only:

    - the first study seems to focus on children's behaviour at daycare if they start early versus starting later. You would assume that a child who has been in long term care would probably cope reasonably well after a long time in care. It doesn't seem to measure how it may have affected their attachment or more subtle psychological effects that could flow on

    - the reporting of the second study doesn't really seem to present any information where you could conclude "children don't care about childcare"

    - the third study compares the academic outcomes of long day care versus pre-school or kindy, so doesn't seem to have anything useful to say about whether childcare is detrimental

    Based on the reporting of the studies of the article, it seems like a long bow to draw to say that there is no detrimental effect on children from childcare. But I'm sure there are studies (perhaps including those ones, as I haven't had the opportunity to ready them) that support that conclusion.

    As for evidence that it is detrimental for young children (ie. under 3), the Steve Biddulph book, Raising Babies, cites a lot of studies on attachment.

    Quote Originally Posted by WorkingClassMum View Post
    The childcare = abuse comes from the Mem Fox quote. It was said to her and she repeated it as she agreed.

    The difference between manufactured formula for babies and childcare is that childcare has been around ever since we all hung out in caves. There is much anthropological evidence that children were cared for by extended family and tribes while their parents hunted/gathered and in the initial stages of farming and animal husbandry were becoming established. Even in many native tribes today looking after children is the business of the whole village - granted babies and little kids are more woman business, but older boys are apprenticed and guided by a significant male and ultimate the whole village guards the entire extended family and tribe population.

    I think modern day care settings mimics a tribal setting very well. I also acknowledge that childcare does not suit all children and in fact aberrant genotypes are an essential part of a species survival, and as such once size fits all goes against the grain of the human species surviving. If we acknowledge that raising babies should be more instinctive and less rigid, we have to accept that one size fits all is not possible or natural.

    ETA. - even formal state schooling does not suit all children which why Montessori, Steiner, homeschooling and unschooling exist
    I think the village and tribe idea is great, but I don't agree that the average long day care centre is the same as a tribe. I have no specific knowledge of tribal culture, but I assume that a lot of the carers were family rather than employees on minimum wage who don't have the same interest in the children. And the centres are generally motivated by profit rather than a sense of community.

    Quote Originally Posted by Blueberry Crumble View Post
    I dont think that it is natural for women to be with their children 24/7.
    I agree. In my ideal world, mothers and fathers and other family members would share the care. I don't think I could do years at home with young kids. I've never done it, but don't think it would be for me.

    ...

    I'm sorry if my posts are hurtful to working parents. there is a lot of judgment out there when you use childcare. Given my late state of pregnancy, people have started asking me how long I will have off work. there is often an awkward silence when I tell people "5 or 6 months", and then I start making excuses about working part time and finances, and they look a bit dubious. you do sometimes feel that people are thinking "why bother having children", and that is unfair as the criticism always falls on women.

    I just wish the system wasn't like it was. My other concern is that if we accept childcare is equal to parental care, there will be less pressure for adequate paid parental leave, as opposed to the poor excuse of a system brought in by the government.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMummy View Post

    I just don't think it's beneficial for children to say "childcare is fine" or "childcare is just as good as parental care" (assuming the parents provide adequate care of course)just to soothe the parents' guilt. I treat this argument the same way as I treat the "formula is just as good for babies as breastmilk" argument.
    See I really disagree with this argument.

    For my kid (and no doubt many others), 10 hours at home with mum = a few hours playing and attention from mum, interspersed with a bit of TV watching, being dragged around doing errands, nagging mum while she tries to get some things done, maybe a trip to the park or playgroup...

    10 hours at daycare = 10 FULL hours of: playing with other children, structured activities, learning opportunities, constant attention from carers, lots of playmates, outside time, reading books, singing songs...

    I would never say that I was happy that DD had to have formula instead of breastmilk, but I definitely 100% say I am happy that DD went to daycare instead of staying home with me full time.

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  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by shelle65 View Post
    See I really disagree with this argument.

    For my kid (and no doubt many others), 10 hours at home with mum = a few hours playing and attention from mum, interspersed with a bit of TV watching, being dragged around doing errands, nagging mum while she tries to get some things done, maybe a trip to the park...

    10 hours at daycare = 10 hours of: playing with other children, structured activities, learning opportunities, constant attention from carers, lots of playmates, outside time, reading books, singing songs...

    I would never say that I was happy that DD had to have formula instead of breastmilk, but I definitely 100% say I am happy that DD went to daycare instead of staying home with me full time.
    I think some of us could be at cross purposes , as we are talking about different ages as well. i think that probably applies more to a 3 year old.

    But would you still say the same about a 6 month old?

  5. #104
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    Default Kids couldn't care less about going to child-care

    Quote Originally Posted by shelle65 View Post
    See I really disagree with this argument.

    For my kid (and no doubt many others), 10 hours at home with mum = a few hours playing and attention from mum, interspersed with a bit of TV watching, being dragged around doing errands, nagging mum while she tries to get some things done, maybe a trip to the park or playgroup...

    10 hours at daycare = 10 FULL hours of: playing with other children, structured activities, learning opportunities, constant attention from carers, lots of playmates, outside time, reading books, singing songs...

    I would never say that I was happy that DD had to have formula instead of breastmilk, but I definitely 100% say I am happy that DD went to daycare instead of staying home with me full time.
    This is how I feel... Totally! DS will be 9/10 months when he goes 3/4 days a week. I'd prefer 3 but will likely have to be 4.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MsMummy View Post
    I think some of us could be at cross purposes , as we are talking about different ages as well. i think that probably applies more to a 3 year old.

    But would you still say the same about a 6 month old?
    Well yeah, a mum from my mothers' group went back to work 4 days a week when her son was 6 months. DD's best friend from daycare had been there since he was a baby too. Both loved it, loved their carers, it was like another family for them. I don't know any mums who would have left their baby there if they didn't think it was the right thing to do.

    The other benefit is, transition to day care for a baby at 6 months is often a lot easier than transition for a toddler. I know DD would go to anyone at 6 months and not give a hoot whether it was me or a stranger giving her a bottle, but at 18 months she was a lot more suspicious of strangers and her surroundings.

    I was in tears when DD finished daycare - it was like saying goodbye to family members. To be able to go to work knowing that your child is happy, safe, having a great time and learning heaps - it's all you want as a parent.

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  8. #106
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    Has this link been posted in the general chat thread at all? It might get viewed there by more people as not every child in daycare is there because of their working parents. Some are put there as respite for single parents.

  9. #107
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    OJandMe is offline I am the strength my children will have.
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    I love my kindy days.

    So do the boys.

    Lysander wakes up every day and says "Kindy day Mum?" (yes) YAY!! (No) "... Otay.... Playgroup day Mum?" lol.. very cute

  10. #108
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    Default Kids couldn't care less about going to child-care

    Quote Originally Posted by shelle65 View Post
    What about those who work because they choose to, not just to make ends meet? Should they be made to feel guilty?
    Did I say that they should feel guilty?? You're just trying to pick arguments now. I never said that!!

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    Default Kids couldn't care less about going to child-care

    I have three children going to daycare and they all love it.

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    Default Kids couldn't care less about going to child-care

    I think I must've hit the jackpot with my childcare centre. It's non-profit, run by the council, they have a cook come in everyday to prepare fresh, healthy meals, they provide everything from breakfast, morning tea, lunch, 2 afternoon snacks, sunscreen, nappies, milk, hats, bed sheets. The only thing I send there is spare clothes, and the centre has had one staff member retire, all other staff are the same since my daughter started there in 2009, and because it's a council centre, they treat their staff well.


 

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