View Poll Results: Who is accountable?

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  • The parents and the child/youth perpetrator are legally accountable

    4 8.70%
  • The parents are accountable, but legally, the child/youth perpetrator should suffer all the consequences

    6 13.04%
  • The child/youth perpetrator is completely accountable for their actions

    34 73.91%
  • Other

    2 4.35%
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  1. #61
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    No one is immune to any of this unfortunately.

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  3. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Not saying that that isn't the case OP, but what I mean is - you just believe something because someone told you. Whereas, if someone told me something like that, I would read up on it both sides of the story and then make my decision as to what I thought was true or not. There are studies that show some are made and some are born.

    Usually I don't take what someone tells me as gospel.
    No I don't. I'm a psychologist. Im only talking about this because I know a lot about it. I didn't get a PhD from just believing what I read and taking it as gospel. But thanks!

    And for those playing along at home, there are genetic risk factors and neuropsychological deficits in psychopaths: that are substantially exacerbated by serious family dysfunction, hostility and abuse, poverty, unemployment, poor education, etc. Environmental influences are of significant importance during the development of psychopathy.
    Last edited by Lilahh; 20-07-2012 at 12:38.

  4. #63
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    Right, so as a psychologist, you can see how you saying "Nope, my friend is doing a PhD and it says xyz" would lead some to question it?

    You can be sarcastic all you like, but just because you are a psychologist and your friend is doing a PhD, doesn't mean that I am automatically going to just believe what you say. I don't think anyone really gets their information on internet forums do they?

    I think it interesting that you seem to be taking all of the responses on this thread personally. Surely you can see that this man was gearing for a fight - he punched 4 people that night. He and he alone, and excuse me, but when was it said that his parents were terrible? Where does it say he is from an abusive home? I have read nothing of the sort. Unless you know something else that I am yet to read, then this is all speculation.

    But then answer me this - in your professional capacity, why is the world full of people from terrible home situations, who don't kill people and make their lives better?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilahh View Post
    No I don't. I'm a psychologist. Im only talking about this because I know a lot about it. I didn't get a PhD from just believing what I read and taking it as gospel. But thanks!

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  6. #64
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    Pretty sure the parents are being punished by the very fact that their son did this.

    Can you imagine the vitriol directed towards them? Their lives will be turned upside down now if they care about this ****head son of theirs.

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  8. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by smileygirl View Post
    it is scientifically proven that the brain does not fully develop until about age 25-27.

    Yes, he knows right from wrong but the segments of the brain that can fully comprehend the consequences from actions are not developed. He would understand that hitting is wrong...but would not have been able to compute that "possibly, the person will die". I see it more as unintentional manslaughter. Yes, he meant to punch them (and that was wrong) but, he would not have thought he could kill someone.

    I strongly believe that there should be a separate section of prisons for young offenders so that they are kept separate and safe from the other inmates, safe from rape and violence that happens EVERY day and night in prison.

    Yes, i believe that the parents should share the responsibility for his actions. You don't get to wipe your hands of them just because they have a birthday. For eg when my ex cheated on me, my inlaws felt responsible (even though he was 30) because they felt it must have been the way he was raised. It doesn't matter that he is grown, he was a sum of his upbringing and experience.

    Sometimes, it is about the dominant discourse of the area they are raised (someone used the example of the treatment of the cameraman) and this can be hard to combat as a parent.

    Sometimes, regardless of upbringing, kids can make really stupid choices and mess up...like this kid has. BUT, putting him in prison with violent offenders that will destroy him...is not the answer.
    Seriously.....

    So untill his 25-27 he cant understand that if he violently hits someone, they could die or be seriously injured....

    But he can understand its wrong and he will be in trouble......

    So im 22, im not 100% developed then..., so i can go out and committ murder and claim oh i didnt know that assulting a person would cause posdible death or injuries.....

    But its funny because since a young age i knew right from wrong, i knew that voilence caused death, injuries and jail. I would never get in a situation like that for those excat reasons as anything could happen.

    When first clubbing i was very aware that it was a risk that you could be injured or die due to idiot teens drinking, doing drugs and violence.
    Unless a person is not 100% there in mind (non-disabled) then at 18 they know that committing a voilent crime will result in possible jail time wether they kill the person or not.

    His allowed to drink.
    His allowed to smoke.
    His allowed to vote.
    He can move out of home.
    He can move overseas.
    He doesnt need parental permission to make ANY life decisions.

    All this crap about an 18yr cant be 100% responsible for what they say and do is just a cop out, another excuse for a biolent crimnal to use in court to get out of jail.

    He killed a person after intentionally assulting another person. He deserves jail. Its the dam freaking law.

    Had this 18yr old adult killed a baby, a 5yr old, a 10yr old..... No one eould have even thought of this bullcr@p excuse.

    His parents didnt tell him to or help him committ a crime. Its that simply

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  10. #66
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    I promise I am not taking them personally, I enjoy playing devil's advocate and having a lively discussion. Im only being sarcastic because you were condescending in your initial reply.

    I referred to my office mate purely because her and her supervisor are considered experts, and I defer knowledge to experts. I would be happy to quote articles next time if it bothers you that much.

    In answer to the last point you made: psychological theories attribute that to resilience. The human spirit is infinitely more resilient then it is vulnerable. At the children's refuge I worked at, all were abused and neglected by their parents and yet only a small percentage went on to commit violent and sexual crimes. I put it down to the infinitely strong human spirit to overcome terrible trauma. But when you get a dangerous combination of bad genetics AND terrible parenting, then you get psychopathy.

    I obviously have no idea if the Loveridge boy has psychopathy.

  11. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubbygirl View Post
    Seriously.....

    So untill his 25-27 he cant understand that if he violently hits someone, they could die or be seriously injured....

    But he can understand its wrong and he will be in trouble......

    So im 22, im not 100% developed then..., so i can go out and committ murder and claim oh i didnt know that assulting a person would cause posdible death or injuries.....

    But its funny because since a young age i knew right from wrong, i knew that voilence caused death, injuries and jail. I would never get in a situation like that for those excat reasons as anything could happen.

    When first clubbing i was very aware that it was a risk that you could be injured or die due to idiot teens drinking, doing drugs and violence.
    Unless a person is not 100% there in mind (non-disabled) then at 18 they know that committing a voilent crime will result in possible jail time wether they kill the person or not.

    His allowed to drink.
    His allowed to smoke.
    His allowed to vote.
    He can move out of home.
    He can move overseas.
    He doesnt need parental permission to make ANY life decisions.

    All this crap about an 18yr cant be 100% responsible for what they say and do is just a cop out, another excuse for a biolent crimnal to use in court to get out of jail.

    He killed a person after intentionally assulting another person. He deserves jail. Its the dam freaking law.

    Had this 18yr old adult killed a baby, a 5yr old, a 10yr old..... No one eould have even thought of this bullcr@p excuse.

    His parents didnt tell him to or help him committ a crime. Its that simply

    correct, at 22 your brain is not fully developed. It is more pronounced in males though.

    i have never said "no consequences", i have said that a kid making a stupid decision/impulsive decision...it diff to a career criminal and should be treated as such.

    Repeat offenders...different again.

    Deliberate/pre med murder - diff again.

    in this case...i feel, if he was walking around punching people...yes, def deserves some form of incarceration...but not this "he deserves what ever he gets/throw him to the wolves" mentality.

    I am not saying he is innocent or deserves to be free or that nothing should be done... I am saying there is a difference between him and hardened criminals who set out to murder someone.

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  13. #68
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    Sorry, I wasn't trying to be condescending.

    I am just used to linking to back up claims, only because I spend most of my time on bubhub debating vaccines!

    Your initial post seems like it didn't take anything into consideration, that this man did this terrible thing therefore the parents should be held responsible.

    What if they really were the best parents ever, loving and nurturing. I mean - it doesn't seem likely given the footage of his friends bashing that camera man ove r the head.

    But what about those great parents - who end up with a child who does something terrible, surely they should't be punished for what their child grown child does?

    That is all I was trying to say - then I got side tracked!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lilahh View Post
    I promise I am not taking them personally, I enjoy playing devil's advocate and having a lively discussion. Im only being sarcastic because you were condescending in your initial reply.

    I referred to my office mate purely because her and her supervisor are considered experts, and I defer knowledge to experts. I would be happy to quote articles next time if it bothers you that much.

    In answer to the last point you made: psychological theories attribute that to resilience. The human spirit is infinitely more resilient then it is vulnerable. At the children's refuge I worked at, all were abused and neglected by their parents and yet only a small percentage went on to commit violent and sexual crimes. I put it down to the infinitely strong human spirit to overcome terrible trauma. But when you get a dangerous combination of bad genetics AND terrible parenting, then you get psychopathy.

    I obviously have no idea if the Loveridge boy has psychopathy.

  14. #69
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    Holding parents legally responsible for their adult childrens actions is craziness.

    Some parents are negligent, or on the verge of being negligent in the ways they bring up their children. Some parents are role models of violent behavior to their children. Some children of these kinds of parents will grow up to be responsible members of society. Some children of these kinds of parents will grow up to be thugs like their parents.

    Some parents provide their children with a stable loving home, a good educations and are excellent role models to their children. Some children of these kinds of parents will become thugs. Some children of these kinds of parents will grow up to be like their parents.

    My sister and I are a case in point. Same upbringing, same parents. She started drinking, taking drugs, running away, being violent and involved with the police as a teenager. She dropped out of school and had a child at 17. She now lives interstate and hardly sees her son. On the other hand I was never in trouble at school, never took drugs, never smoked, have never been in trouble with the police, went straight from school to university, and am now a lawyer, married with a young baby.

    How do you explain that OP? Should my parents have been held legally accountable for all the stupid things my sister did as a young adult?

    To hold parents legally responsible for their children's actions could very well see good caring parents ruined by the bad choices of their adult children.

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  16. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wastingtime View Post
    What about the troubled kids who do come from loving homes? Why should their parents, who do absolutely everything in their power to get their child help from a very young age with no changes to their child, why should they be held accountable? And yes, these troubled kids from very loving families DO exist. I know one personally and I witness the worry and stress that it brings to the whole family while they all work together to try and get the troubled kid help.

    Unless there is a parenting license then there's no determining as to whether a parent has 'failed' or not; and forcing everyone to raise their children in one, uniformed manner, is a ridiculous notion that will never work, but is the only way that a parent could be held legally accountable for the actions of their child who is classed as an adult by the law.
    Well said....

    God forbid when some of you peoples children turn 18 my god, just hope for your sakes they all turn out little angels and perfect (of course being yours they will be) you might jus have to eat your own opinions

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