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  1. #291
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    I have come into this thread quite late, but I have made the effort to read through the whole thread.

    I read the article and was astounded that smoking whilst pregnant was so common. I know that it has been mentioned previously that it is widely publicised that smoking is extremely harmful for the unborn baby (I refuse to call them a fetus as I believe that that dehumanises the baby which is a living being) and yet it is still quite common for women to smoke.

    I am currently going through fertility treatment and have been for quite some time. During my ttc journey i have completely changed my lifestyle. Exercise, healthy eating, no drinking and have cut back on my smoking. I am still being judged by SOME of the nurses at my clinic as in their opinion I still have not done enough to ensure that my body is perfect for my baby. I have had it said to me on numerous occasions that smoking BEFORE pregnancy is almost just as harmful to your unborn baby as the damage you are causing to your body from smoking is also damaging your eggs.

    I have recently had a mc and when i found out i was pregnant i quit completely. Unfortunately my baby didnt survive past 6 weeks. I couldnt help but blame myself that it was my smoking BEFORE pregnancy that caused my baby not to survive and the stress and emotion from my loss caused me to pick up the cigerettes again. Not perfect I know and I am just causing myself to go through a vicious cycle in my mind.

    My cousin who recently had a baby smoked throughout her pregnancy. Her gorgeous DS was born below the average birth weight and has a number of health issues. Although it cant be proven to be caused from her smoking.

    I also lived next foor to a woman who smoked both cigerettes and marijuana whilst pregnant. Her baby was born having withdrawls and was quite unwell. She thought it was perfectly normal for her baby to be lying in their crib shaking and convulsing at two weeks of age. Thankfully her child was taken by child services due to the severity of the poor babies illness.

    Both of these situations is enough to make me want to do everything possible to ensure my body is perfect for my child to form in a healthy environment. Maybe I am being judgemental on the women who do any form of substance (whether it be legal or not) during pregnancy as I beat myself up so badly after losing my angel because I smoked BEFORE my pregnancy.

    I am sorry for the excessively long post and if I have reignited a debate. I am not sure what point I am trying to get across but this is how I am feeling at this point in my personal ttc journey.

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  3. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I still believe a baby has rights after its born. However wants, needs and rights can be ranked on a sliding depending on a variety of factors.If your pro-baby I doubt you'd give your baby/child everything they ask for (would you give your 5 year old a 1 liter coca cola slurped at 9pm at night?). If your pro-mamma I doubt you'd be ok with the mum leaving her baby alone at home overnight while she goes to the pub.

    It is different (for me) as abortion and smoking (IMO) due to their proven/serious/permanent nature cross the line into the Abhorrent. It's like an 8 and 10 out of 10 on the unconscionable scale as opposed to a 3. That's why I'm against smoking when pregnant/abortion and don't care so much about cc.

    I'm sure you understand the concept of a sliding scale of severity and adjust your views accordingly. Eg someone that pinches someone is still violent, but isn't as bad as a murderer or rapist.
    But that is your own personal sliding scale.

    I think it's abhorrent to force a woman to carry an unwanted child. If we did this, then agencies like docs would be more overloaded, and there'd be a whole lot more judgmental threads on here about useless parents who should have never been allowed to have children.

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  5. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    But that is your own personal sliding scale.

    I think it's abhorrent to force a woman to carry an unwanted child. If we did this, then agencies like docs would be more overloaded, and there'd be a whole lot more judgmental threads on here about useless parents who should have never been allowed to have children.
    Why did you even bring up other threads on cc? Are you just looking for argy bargy? Over and out from
    Me I have shopping to do.

  6. #294
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    Just my own opinion - and I am a non-smoker and am COMPLETELY against smoking.
    I think if you are PLANNING a child you do everything to make your body as healthy as possible including giving up smoking etc to give your baby the best chance. If it is unplanned then you do your best and it's a good reason to kick yourself up the bum and quit. However, quitting is hard and stressful (so I've heard) and with everything else from the pregnancy hormones maybe some people feel that the stress would harm their baby more? Honestly I don't know.

    On the abortion issue that has been brought up. If I had become pregnant unplanned then I would have aborted. This was discussed with my partner when we first got together and it has always been how I felt. I want to know that I am in the best position to support my baby physically emotionally and financially before bringing them into the world. Having said that I made sure that I was protected during s3x at all times using several methods of contraception and so luckily I never had to actually go through with it. I have the utmost respect for people who do keep the baby but I knew that there was no way I would've coped.

  7. #295
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    I am really not sure why you keep saying "those who are pro woman, those who are pro baby". Why does it stand that you have to be one or the other?

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    I still believe a baby has rights after its born. However wants, needs and rights can be ranked on a sliding depending on a variety of factors.If your pro-baby I doubt you'd give your baby/child everything they ask for (would you give your 5 year old a 1 liter coca cola slurped at 9pm at night?). If your pro-mamma I doubt you'd be ok with the mum leaving her baby alone at home overnight while she goes to the pub.

    It is different (for me) as abortion and smoking (IMO) due to their proven/serious/permanent nature cross the line into the Abhorrent. It's like an 8 and 10 out of 10 on the unconscionable scale as opposed to a 3. That's why I'm against smoking when pregnant/abortion and don't care so much about cc.

    I'm sure you understand the concept of a sliding scale of severity and adjust your views accordingly. Eg someone that pinches someone is still violent, but isn't as bad as a murderer or rapist.

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  9. #296
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    The fact remains that unborn babies, fetuses, do not have rights until they are born. This is the law. Pregnant women can choose to smoke, eat sushi, abort (to a certain stage), drink alcohol, clean out the kitty litter or whatever else (within the law) and legally they are doing nothing wrong. They can choose what risks they take because they have the legal right to decide what they do with their own bodies. So all judgement is kind of moot really, be it on here or from the mouth of an artless child or whatever. We all agree it's not the best choice. But we are all only human too and in something like this I personally think it would be nicer if we had compassion and empathy for a woman struggling with addiction as opposed to judgement and demonising. But to each their own.

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  11. #297
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I am really not sure why you keep saying "those who are pro woman, those who are pro baby". Why does it stand that you have to be one or the other?
    Its just a shorthand way of referring to those who put the mother v baby first on an issue (eg smoking when pregnant). I agree you don't always have to be one or the other .

    But lets be honest, you can't really fly the 'pro baby' flag if you smoke a pack a day while preggers. Or have an abortion but that's another thread.

  12. #298
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    I don't believe this, surely it depends on the reason.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    have an abortion but that's another thread.

  13. #299
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    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Its just a shorthand way of referring to those who put the mother v baby first on an issue (eg smoking when pregnant). I agree you don't always have to be one or the other .

    But lets be honest, you can't really fly the 'pro baby' flag if you smoke a pack a day while preggers. Or have an abortion but that's another thread.
    My abortion was for pro baby yes I had one but if I didn't the father of the child would most likely of killed while kicking me in the stomach. So tell me how is that a bad thing. I think you have really stepped the line on this subject. By saying what you have I am a bad mother to my child but I think that in my situation I made the best decision.

  14. #300
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    I don't put mother or baby first, I put bodily autonomy first.

    Quote Originally Posted by VicPark View Post
    Its just a shorthand way of referring to those who put the mother v baby first on an issue (eg smoking when pregnant). I agree you don't always have to be one or the other .

    But lets be honest, you can't really fly the 'pro baby' flag if you smoke a pack a day while preggers. Or have an abortion but that's another thread.

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