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  1. #31
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    Subbing also... Interesting to see peoples thoughts.

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  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    ??? Vaccines are not injected into the blood ******. They are injected intramuscularly, subcutaneously or given orally.
    Thanks for clarifying. I'm not very medically experienced, but was just trying to highlight the difference between naturally absorbed (via breastmilk) and unnaturally absorbed (injected).

  3. #33
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    My children are vaccinated to the schedule, but this discussion interests me greatly because I have been doing a lot of research on autoimmune disease (my family is riddled with all sorts of different examples). The research I have been doing is unrelated to vaccines but a lot of questions are starting to form in my mind...

    Regarding the HLA genes, it gets complicated in that they obviously indictate a pre-disposition, but if you take coeliac disease for example - approx 1/3 of the population is estimated to carry the HLA genes, but not everyone will develop the disease, then to add to it further some people have medically diagnosed coeliac disease that don't carry any of the genes.

  4. #34
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    Argh, I just wrote a long reply that vanished. Grrrr. In regards to coeliac disease, there is a very strong link with the particular genes referred to as DQ2 and DQ8. In fact, 95% of the coeliacs carry this particular gene variant. This variant produces receptors that bind to gliadin peptides (a particular wheat protein) very strongly. Because this binding is so much stronger than the receptors that are naturally encoded by the unmutated gene variants it more strongly activates our T-cells and leads to an immune response.

    Not to say that all people with this particular variant will become coeliacs, but if you have coeliac disease then you are likely to carry this genetic variant.

  5. #35
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    It is 90% HLA DQ2/2.5 and 5% HLA DQ8, that is correct isn't it.

    But I guess the major question is why is it triggered in some and not others. I don't believe for my family personally that is vaccines, I have it, my mother has (and she only had the smallpox vax- everything else she caught wild) my grandfather was suspected as having it, there were no vaxxes when he was young. Two of my kids are borderline on the tests and one is about to undetake a gluten challenge (ugh) I feel sometimes that there must be something more than just the genes that makes you susceptible. My family obviously has a really strong predisposition for it. I think I can trace my first symptoms back and it was when we had a major family trauma when I was 7.

    They also say that childbirth and pregnancy can trigger autoimmune diseases, they are things that we do and are considered good. So the truth is sometimes good things can trigger autoimmune stuff, sometimes bad things can, and sometimes it can be a piddly little virus that you wouldn't blink twice at.

    I'm interested in the vaccine theory - but there is no denying, that that is really the very tip of the iceberg and so many other things can trigger AI stuff, are you going to avoid them all?

    Quote Originally Posted by lolz83 View Post
    Argh, I just wrote a long reply that vanished. Grrrr. In regards to coeliac disease, there is a very strong link with the particular genes referred to as DQ2 and DQ8. In fact, 95% of the coeliacs carry this particular gene variant. This variant produces receptors that bind to gliadin peptides (a particular wheat protein) very strongly. Because this binding is so much stronger than the receptors that are naturally encoded by the unmutated gene variants it more strongly activates our T-cells and leads to an immune response.

    Not to say that all people with this particular variant will become coeliacs, but if you have coeliac disease then you are likely to carry this genetic variant.

  6. #36
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    Thanks for posting that, it's one of the main reasons I have selectively vaxxed and interesting reading. I do get so tired of hearing the comments about Dr. Andrew Wakefield and his flawed studies and about how a lot of children with autism aren't vaccinated...I am much more worried about the longterm damage to their immune systems than autism. I watched my sister suffer terribly from juvenile rheumatoid arthritis starting from 7 years old and I wouldnt wish that on anyone.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    But I guess the major question is why is it triggered in some and not others.
    That's the million dollar question, and one that I have spend years researching as a scientist. Honestly, we don't know. The immune system is so complex, so many signalling pathways, so many different endogenous chemicals involved. I for one am completely skeptical on the vaccine theory, I just don't believe the scientific evidence is conclusive and I have read a lot into this and have had in depth discussions with fellow immunologists about this.

    The genetics are showing more of a strong link, even infection with Epstein Barr virus (glandular fever) in adolescents has shown a link with the formation of autoimmune disorders in later life. Sex may play a role, nearly 75% of all autoimmune sufferers are female. This may be related to oestrogen levels, or fluctuating hormone levels during pregnancy and widespread use of the oral contraceptive pill.

    Environmental stimuli - who knows? Certain drugs can stimulate lupus, smoking can cause rheumatoid arthritis (for you fellow nerds(!) smoking causes a process called citrinullation in proteins, citrinullated proteins are autoreactive) and a particular strain of coxsackie virus (an enterovirus that can cause gastro issues) can cause type I diabetes.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lolz83 For This Useful Post:

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  9. #38
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    Thanks so much for all the info. It is facisnating stuff. I went into comlete remission with my connective tissue disease when I was pregnant. It is all so complicated!

    Quote Originally Posted by lolz83 View Post
    That's the million dollar question, and one that I have spend years researching as a scientist. Honestly, we don't know. The immune system is so complex, so many signalling pathways, so many different endogenous chemicals involved. I for one am completely skeptical on the vaccine theory, I just don't believe the scientific evidence is conclusive and I have read a lot into this and have had in depth discussions with fellow immunologists about this.

    The genetics are showing more of a strong link, even infection with Epstein Barr virus (glandular fever) in adolescents has shown a link with the formation of autoimmune disorders in later life. Sex may play a role, nearly 75% of all autoimmune sufferers are female. This may be related to oestrogen levels, or fluctuating hormone levels during pregnancy and widespread use of the oral contraceptive pill.

    Environmental stimuli - who knows? Certain drugs can stimulate lupus, smoking can cause rheumatoid arthritis (for you fellow nerds(!) smoking causes a process called citrinullation in proteins, citrinullated proteins are autoreactive) and a particular strain of coxsackie virus (an enterovirus that can cause gastro issues) can cause type I diabetes.

  10. #39
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    In My Stride is offline 3 babies, 2 businesses, 1 husband & a partridge in a pear tree
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    Lolz83 - I have SLE.

    My sister has it.

    My brother has it.

    My dad died from it at 49yrs.

    Aunts, uncles & cousins on BOTH sides have it (or have passed away from it) and they say it isn't hereditary.

    My Rhuemy used to work in the UK & treated some of my family there, I filled the gaps for her. My parents grew up across the street from one and other, went to the same school etc. they grew up in a poor area in post war Britain, many who grew up with them also have it & a myriad of other auto immune & cancers. Unusually high numbers. She's thinking now SLE could be environmental, was it something in the water? Where they given a dodgy vax as kids? anything is possible, I'm happy to pm you anything she discovers if you like, she's working with a few others gathering info at the moment like old medical records etc

  11. #40
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    Witwicky is offline A closed mouth gathers no foot.
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    How ironic, I have actually been researching this very topic lately, out of interest.

    My son was diagnosed with Type 1 diabetes just a few months ago, at 12 months of age. We are selective vaxxers. He contracted a flu like virus prior to diagnosis, which is believed to have played a role in triggering the diabetes, although i'm not discounting other triggers. I don't doubt that he would have been diagnosed with diabetes at another point in time if something did not trigger it this year.

    His endocrinologist stated that more people are diagnosed with diabetes in winter than any other season due to viral triggers which are prevalent at that time of year (obviously referring to those who are genetically susceptible).

    It is my understanding that there are many possible triggers, and different triggers affect people differently, i.e.: one trigger may affect one person, but not the next.


 

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