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  1. #21
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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  2. #22
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    You get more aluminum from environmental exposure and foods than you do from vaccines.

    OP, have you taken in to account our greater ability to recognize, name and treat autoimmune disorders? Just curious?
    I don't believe we do receive the same levels of aluminum via environmental exposure and the amount we are exposed to via inhalation and ingestion only has a very low absorption rate, something like less than 1%, as opposed to direct injection into the blood system.

    interesting study on babies and aluminium absorption highlights the difference
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20010978



    J Expo Sci Environ Epidemiol. 2010 Nov;20(7):598-601. Epub 2009 Dec 16.
    Infants' exposure to aluminum from vaccines and breast milk during the first 6 months.

    Dórea JG, Marques RC.
    Source

    Department of Nutrition, Universidade de Brasília, Brasília, DF, Brazil. dorea@rudah.com.br

    Abstract

    The success of vaccination programs in reducing and eliminating infectious diseases has contributed to an ever-increasing number of vaccines given at earlier ages (newborns and infants). Exposure to low levels of environmental toxic substances (including metals) at an early age raises plausible concerns over increasingly lower neuro-cognitive rates. Current immunization schedules with vaccines containing aluminum (as adjuvant) are given to infants, but thimerosal (as preservative) is found mostly in vaccines used in non-industrialized countries. Exclusively, breastfed infants (in Brazil) receiving a full recommended schedule of immunizations showed an exceedingly high exposure of Al (225 to 1750 μg per dose) when compared with estimated levels absorbed from breast milk (2.0 μg). This study does not dispute the safety of vaccines but reinforces the need to study long-term effects of early exposure to neuro-toxic substances on the developing brain. Pragmatic vaccine safety needs to embrace conventional toxicology, addressing especial characteristics of unborn fetuses, neonates and infants exposed to low levels of aluminum, and ethylmercury traditionally considered innocuous to the central nervous system.
    And in regards to greater identification of these disease yes that probably plays some role in an increase in these diseases but to put it in to perspective look at people with heart disease, due to advances in medicine we can now diagnose and treat heart disease at a much greater rate, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't look at the risk factors and do what we can to improve outcomes, it also doesn't mean there has been no increase in heart disease.

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    I really must get some sleep and trying to respond on my iPhone is cumbersome. However, just a thought. I remember reading that the incidence of developing an autoimmune disease after the rubella vaccine was approx 1 in 30,000. However the chance of developing an autoimmune condition after being infected with native rubella in a non immunized individual was 1 in 3000. I can dig the paper up at work tomorrow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 4underfour View Post
    And remember luvmyboys, the risk of contracting a vpd is low now, but if we were all to stop vaccinating, these diseases would become the mass killers they used to be.
    I agree, that does have an effect on my risk assessment, if there was a greater risk of these diseases it may tip the scale more in favour of vaccinating. I don't really agree that many of these diseases are mass killers, potentially harmful yes and some are riskier for certain groups but many used to be quite moderate childhood diseases

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    Quote Originally Posted by BornToBe View Post
    That does not mean injecting more directly into the blood****** is safe.
    ??? Vaccines are not injected into the blood ******. They are injected intramuscularly, subcutaneously or given orally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Atropos View Post
    ??? Vaccines are not injected into the blood ******. They are injected intramuscularly, subcutaneously or given orally.
    Most are intramuscular or subcutaneous and are absorbed into the blood****** via capillaries etc, usually slower but higher overall absorption rates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyboys View Post
    Most are intramuscular or subcutaneous and are absorbed into the blood****** via capillaries etc, usually slower but higher overall absorption rates.
    Still not the same as directly into the blood******

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    In regards to aluminum - there is about 4mg of aluminum in vaccines and 10mg in breast milk and its even higher in formula. Intramuscular or subcutaneous aluminum will become bound to transferrin (a protein in blood), transported to the kidney and excreted. The removal is approx 50% by 24 hours. It takes approx 3 years for ~97% to be removed. HOWEVER, the aluminum present in our diet also accumulates in our body. By the time we are adults we have around 100mg of accumulated aluminum in our bones, lungs and brains. Only a very small percentage of that has come from vaccines. Regardless of the initial source of aluminum (diet vs vaccines) they will both accumulate. Trying to link the aluminum solely in vaccines to the formation of autoimmune disease is problematic due to discrepancies in the initial source. Remember that aluminum is not present in all vaccines (it's not present in live vaccines like MMR).

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to lolz83 For This Useful Post:

    Atropos  (13-07-2012),CMF  (13-07-2012),MissMuppet  (13-07-2012)

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    subbing, it is an interesting theory. Although I have only had 3 vaccines and my autoimmune problems started before any of them. I don't believe there is one things that triggers an autoimmune disease, you need to be susceptible in the first place, have the genes for it. We are surrounded by poisons and pollution and eating goodness knows what.
    That isn't to say that I don't think that vaccines could play a part.
    Absolutely true beebs. Genetic predisposition is a huge risk factor in the formation of autoimmune diseases. If anyone is interested in the genetics (and it is complicated) check out HLA (human leukocyte antigen) genes also known as MHC (major histocompatability complex). There is a strong link in different variants of these genes and development of a whole myriad of autoimmune diseases.

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