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  1. #11
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    subbing, it is an interesting theory. Although I have only had 3 vaccines and my autoimmune problems started before any of them. I don't believe there is one things that triggers an autoimmune disease, you need to be susceptible in the first place, have the genes for it. We are surrounded by poisons and pollution and eating goodness knows what.
    That isn't to say that I don't think that vaccines could play a part.

  2. #12
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    Heb B is now standard at birth, and I think 6 & 8 weeks (?) in Australia.

  3. #13
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    Hep b is recommended 4 times on the immunisation schedule : birth , 6 weeks, 16 weeks and 6 months - its part of the infarix hexa vaccine (the one that also contains pertussis) so if you child has had the whooping cough vaccine it's also had hep b ( in nsw anyway)
    Last edited by Elijahs Mum; 12-07-2012 at 21:45.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Taffabella View Post
    Also the incidence of reactions in sle patients did not seem excessive to me (10/265 for one vaccine 3.77%) - that figure basically says that 96% of vaccines were successful with no adverse effect on autoimmune disease (sle in particular).

    The way I see it, if I needed surgery and there was a 96% chance it would be a success then I'd go through with it - mainly because the odds are on my side.

    So for me, I kind of think the argument in the article doesn't link to childhood vaccinations at all (as the vaccines mentioned are generally administered to adults).
    But what if you were offered surgery to fix something you don't have or only have a small chance of getting?
    I think the article raises some questions and explains some of the mechanisms, I don't think it is definitive by any means. I have also read some journals that discuss the risk from other ingredients in the vaxes, such as aluminium, that may act upon the autoimmune system.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by luvmyboys View Post
    But what if you were offered surgery to fix something you don't have or only have a small chance of getting?
    I think the article raises some questions and explains some of the mechanisms, I don't think it is definitive by any means. I have also read some journals that discuss the risk from other ingredients in the vaxes, such as aluminium, that may act upon the autoimmune system.
    You get more aluminum from environmental exposure and foods than you do from vaccines.

    OP, have you taken in to account our greater ability to recognize, name and treat autoimmune disorders? Just curious?
    Last edited by Atropos; 12-07-2012 at 22:00.

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  7. #16
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    Many autoimmune diseases are thought to be triggered by a virus or other foreign antigen. So it is entirely feasible that in some people, a vaccine may trigger it.
    But I will still take the minuscule risk of that happening to protect my children and the population in general, from the risk of vpd's.
    And remember luvmyboys, the risk of contracting a vpd is low now, but if we were all to stop vaccinating, these diseases would become the mass killers they used to be.

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    Alimia  (13-07-2012),Atropos  (12-07-2012),soon2bmumzy  (12-07-2012)

  9. #17
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    Ok - I didn't realise hep b was in the child hood immunisation schedule (I honestly thought it wasn't).

    As for the question about having surgery for something you may not have or get - I don't think it's truly comparable questioning however to respond for the sake of it: if getting whatever it was meant that fatality was a bigger possibility than not then at 96% odds I would proceed.

  10. #18
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    For those of you who are interested in some in depth reading I have a review that is very interesting, it talks in depth about the mechanisms involved in autoimmune diseases. It is written by a consultant for the big pharma companies so doesn't support a link to vaccines but is interesting none the less.
    http://image.thelancet.com/extras/02art9340web.pdf

    And here is one article which discusses the links with aluminium in vaccines.

    A new Canadian study of the mechanisms of aluminum adjuvant toxicity in pediatric patients confirms that immune challenges during early development, including those vaccine-induced, can lead to permanent detrimental alterations of the brain and immune system function. Lucija Tomljenovic, PhD and Christopher A. Shaw, PhD of the University of British Columbia’s evidence-based study was recently published in Lupus, the only fully peer reviewed international journal devoted exclusively to lupus (and related disease) research.
    Tomljenovic L, Shaw CA. Mechanisms of aluminum adjuvant toxicity in pediatric populations.
    Lupus. 2011;21(2):223-230
    Summary
    Immune challenges during early development, including those vaccine-induced, can lead to permanent detrimental alterations of the brain and immune system function. Experimental evidence also shows that simultaneous administration of as little as two to three immune adjuvants can overcome genetic resistance to autoimmunity. In some developed countries, by the time children are 4 to 6 years old, they will have received a total of 126 antigenic compounds along with high amounts of aluminum (Al) adjuvants through routine vaccinations. According to the US Food and Drug Administration, safety assessments for vaccines have often not included appropriate toxicity studies because vaccines have not been viewed as inherently toxic.
    Taken together, these observations raise plausible concerns about the overall safety of current childhood vaccination programs.
    When assessing adjuvant toxicity in children, several key points ought to be considered:
    1) During prenatal and early postnatal development the brain is extremely vulnerable to neurotoxic insults;
    2) Aluminum is a neurotoxin and a strong immune stimulant. Hence, aluminum has all the necessary biochemical properties to induce neuro-immune diseases. Autism is one such disease. Namely, autism is characterized by dysfunctional immunity and abnormalities in brain function;
    3) In adult humans aluminum vaccine adjuvants have been linked to a variety of serious autoimmune and inflammatory conditions, yet children are regularly exposed to much higher amounts of aluminium from vaccines than adults;
    4) It is often incorrectly assumed that peripheral immune challenges (analogous to vaccinations) do not affect brain function. However, it is now clearly established that there is a cross-talk between the nervous and the immune system. It is also demonstrated that this cross-talk plays a crucial role in both immunoregulation as well as brain function. In turn, perturbations of the neuro-immune regulatory system have been demonstrated in many autoimmune diseases and are thought to be driven by a hyperactive immune response;
    5) The same components of the neuro-immune regulatory system that have key roles in both brain development and immune function are heavily affected by aluminum adjuvants;


    In summary, research evidence shows that increasing concerns about current vaccination practices may indeed be warranted. Because children may be most at risk of vaccine-induced complications, a rigorous evaluation of the vaccine-related adverse health impacts in the pediatric population is urgently needed.
    Those with access to pubmed can find more here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22235057

  11. #19
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    This was linked by the CDC http://www.chop.edu/export/download/...r/aluminum.pdf

    Main point is: During the first 6 months of life, infants could receive about 4 milligrams of aluminum from vaccines. That’s not very much: a milligram is one-thousandth of a gram and a gram is the weight of one-fifth of a teaspoon of water. During the same period, babies will also receive about 10 milligrams of aluminum in breast milk, about 40 milligrams in infant formula, or about 120 milligrams in soy-based formula.

    Recent article from the FDA- http://www.fda.gov/BiologicsBloodVaccines/ScienceResearch/ucm284520.htm

  12. #20
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    That does not mean injecting more directly into the blood****** is safe.

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