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  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackEyedPea View Post








    Autonimy is only appropriate when our decisions don't directly effect the health of others (ie. abortion, diet etc).
    I couldnt agree less. You start forcing medical treatments on people and this country becomes a very scary place.

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  3. #152
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    BlackEyedPea- For me personally, hep B is not a big threat to my (or most Australian) kids at this point in their lives. How is my newborn going to get Hep B, or pass it on? It's not passed through touch or droplets or anything, so I don't feel at this stage they need it. I also didn't vax against Rotavirus as my eldest DD had it and it was pretty awful, but I don't feel it's something that necessarily needs vaxing against FOR MY KIDS. If we lived more communally or in an Aboriginal community, I would consider the rotavirus vaccine but we don't. Chicken pox I don't really want to vax against as again, I don't see it as that dangerous if they get it as kids, as we all did. But now that everyone is vaccinated against it, the chances of my kids getting it are very low, and if they get it as adults the consequences are worse, so because of this I prob will vax against it at some stage. I do the rest (delayed, my 2.5 yr old is about to get his 12 mth MMR) but would reconsider some if I could break them up.

    I get lots of advice from lots of health professionals about lots of things and unfortunately not all of it fits every family and not all of it is evidence-based. So I prefer to decide for myself

    oh, and the reason people don't like vaxing isn't because of the physical needle. No-one likes that, but it's got nothing to do with why people aren't vaxing their kids.

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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    Come on, let's be honest here- most people who vaccinate do so because they believe it will protect THEIR children from disease, it's not for the greater good! Stop trying to make out vaxing parents are martyrs for the poor unvaxed kids of selfish, irresponsible parents!

    Completely disagree..

    I do it becouse I want these diseases gone ...
    Last edited by Maybelline; 13-07-2012 at 11:47.

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  7. #154
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    Annabella, I agree with you. If my child has not had chicken pox by 12 she will be vaccinated against it, but until then she won't be. No rotavirus or flu vaccines for us either. If we lived in a place where lots of people around us were high risk then I would reassess.

  8. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabella View Post
    Come on, let's be honest here- most people who vaccinate do so because they believe it will protect THEIR children from disease, it's not for the greater good! Stop trying to make out vaxing parents are martyrs for the poor unvaxed kids of selfish, irresponsible parents!
    Um, this is just a cheap shot and rather defensive - I get it.

    But if all these vaccinations are unnecessary, then how is it NOT community-minded to have them done anyway??

    Well, maybe we should all refuse to vaccinate our babies, and then we'll certainly start to see a gradual (or even swift) increase in these diseases re-enter our community (because people do travel you know) and kill our babies and the elderly in large numbers. and then we'll all throw our arms up in the air and cry 'how could this happen in today's world? How?'

    We're talking about preventative medicine, not selective medicine just for 'if you want to'.

    I get that you will keep defending your point, but at least come up with something useful, unlike the above juvenile comments, sheesh.

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  10. #156
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    Its just not a black and white issue. It can't be. A lot of people say they respect people's choice to not vax when its for medical reasons - ie under doctors advice, but just where is the line for that? In reality, its blurry. Doctors leave the choice up to parents. They will often give the pros and cons for an individual, but say its up to the parents to decide which way to go. Its not simple to say, 'medical non vax aside...' because a lot of people who don't vax could be said to have medical reasons, based on their own situation.

    A friend of mine can't be vaxxed as she had a serious reaction and is medically contra-indicated. Now that's straightforward. But when it comes to her children she's in a quandry. Her baby had a bad reaction to her first vaccine, its possible she has the same issues my friend does. But my friend is scared to not vax as she caught the vax preventable diseases in childhood and it was awful. And she wants to protect her child. But she's also scared of giving the vax for obvious reasons.

    She chose to continue to vax, but I would understand if she chose the other way. The doctors didn't say yay or nay - its her decision in this grey area.

    You can't make vaccination compulsory because there are lots of cases like this. Where doctors don't say 'do NOT vaccinate' but say 'hmmmm... this is a tricky one...' Or recommend delayed vaccination. How does that fit in with compulsory vax enforcement?

    Everyone is trying to make the decision they think is best and safest. And everyone has different family histories and past experiences, and medical issues, and interpretations of risk.

    I vaccinate, but I also recognise its not a straightforward decision for a lot of people, and there is much more to it than 'complacency' as is often suggested.

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  12. #157
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMuppet View Post
    Its just not a black and white issue. It can't be. A lot of people say they respect people's choice to not vax when its for medical reasons - ie under doctors advice, but just where is the line for that? In reality, its blurry. Doctors leave the choice up to parents. They will often give the pros and cons for an individual, but say its up to the parents to decide which way to go. Its not simple to say, 'medical non vax aside...' because a lot of people who don't vax could be said to have medical reasons, based on their own situation.

    A friend of mine can't be vaxxed as she had a serious reaction and is medically contra-indicated. Now that's straightforward. But when it comes to her children she's in a quandry. Her baby had a bad reaction to her first vaccine, its possible she has the same issues my friend does. But my friend is scared to not vax as she caught the vax preventable diseases in childhood and it was awful. And she wants to protect her child. But she's also scared of giving the vax for obvious reasons.

    She chose to continue to vax, but I would understand if she chose the other way. The doctors didn't say yay or nay - its her decision in this grey area.

    You can't make vaccination compulsory because there are lots of cases like this. Where doctors don't say 'do NOT vaccinate' but say 'hmmmm... this is a tricky one...' Or recommend delayed vaccination. How does that fit in with compulsory vax enforcement?

    Everyone is trying to make the decision they think is best and safest. And everyone has different family histories and past experiences, and medical issues, and interpretations of risk.

    I vaccinate, but I also recognise its not a straightforward decision for a lot of people, and there is much more to it than 'complacency' as is often suggested.
    Perfectly said.

  13. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissMuppet View Post
    Its just not a black and white issue. It can't be. A lot of people say they respect people's choice to not vax when its for medical reasons - ie under doctors advice, but just where is the line for that? In reality, its blurry. Doctors leave the choice up to parents. They will often give the pros and cons for an individual, but say its up to the parents to decide which way to go. Its not simple to say, 'medical non vax aside...' because a lot of people who don't vax could be said to have medical reasons, based on their own situation.

    A friend of mine can't be vaxxed as she had a serious reaction and is medically contra-indicated. Now that's straightforward. But when it comes to her children she's in a quandry. Her baby had a bad reaction to her first vaccine, its possible she has the same issues my friend does. But my friend is scared to not vax as she caught the vax preventable diseases in childhood and it was awful. And she wants to protect her child. But she's also scared of giving the vax for obvious reasons.

    She chose to continue to vax, but I would understand if she chose the other way. The doctors didn't say yay or nay - its her decision in this grey area.

    You can't make vaccination compulsory because there are lots of cases like this. Where doctors don't say 'do NOT vaccinate' but say 'hmmmm... this is a tricky one...' Or recommend delayed vaccination. How does that fit in with compulsory vax enforcement?

    Everyone is trying to make the decision they think is best and safest. And everyone has different family histories and past experiences, and medical issues, and interpretations of risk.

    I vaccinate, but I also recognise its not a straightforward decision for a lot of people, and there is much more to it than 'complacency' as is often suggested.
    Ok, absolutely, I get that.

    But most of the people against in in this thread have given no good reason why... Of course there is going to be exceptions and I doubt anyone at all would dispute that. In the examples you gave, they are very good reasons not to vaccinate and are not 'grey areas' at all! But the vast majority of people can and should.

    But like I said, no-one haere bar one or two people have given good reason not to vaccinate apart from they simply choose not to.

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  15. #159
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    I am lucky enough to live in a country that allows me choice when it comes to this issue. So long as I have that choice, I will execise my rights to such choice.

    You don't have to understand or agree with my choices, but you should at least respect the fact that I have that choice.

    *I can haz typos*

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  17. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackEyedPea View Post
    Ok, absolutely, I get that.

    But most of the people against in in this thread have given no good reason why... Of course there is going to be exceptions and I doubt anyone at all would dispute that. In the examples you gave, they are very good reasons not to vaccinate! But the vast majority of people can and should.

    But like I said, no-one haere bar one or two people have given good reason not to vaccinate apart from they simply choose not to.
    I might be totally wrong, but I've read it as, 'they've said it before and are tired of constantly having to justify themselves', rather than just choose not to.

    I do agree most people can vaccinate, and I think the stats show most people do vaccinate.

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