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  1. #101
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    Eko is offline Acrobatic Dominatrix.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Witwicky View Post
    Thank you for outlining what I do and don't understand, however you have misinterpreted my posts. Too often I read about mothers who state that they would want nothing to do with their child in that situation and would walk away in disgust. Yet most mothers don't, and there are reasons as to why.

    The posts in question actually *criticise* those families who stand by their children in those situations (I recall her stating that it's disgusting?!).

    I am merely pointing out that while it would be very difficult to fathom ones feelings on this matter if you have not experienced it, it is not as easy as simply disowning your child. Every one of those mothers wants to believe that their child didn't commit the crime. It's not disgusting - it's love. And hope. It's also fear of a life without their child who they nurtured in their womb and raised from birth, and a million other emotions. I'm simply pointing out that it is not so easily done.

    Sure, some families can easily walk away. They might not wish them dead, but can move on. However it is far from disgusting if you can't and don't (and seeing families grasp onto that hope shouldn't make your blood 'boil').
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the easiest way to summarize what Witwicky is saying is "You can love a person, but not love their actions".

    If my son turned out to be a horrible, murdering rapist, I would still love him. He would still be my son, nothing can ever change that. I might be sickened by his acts, I might wish that I had been a better mother or prevented what he'd done and I'd SURE as heck feel guilt for still loving someone that could do such vile things.
    But I would still love him. It's hard-wired into me. He's my baby and always will be.

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  3. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eko View Post
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the easiest way to summarize what Witwicky is saying is "You can love a person, but not love their actions".

    If my son turned out to be a horrible, murdering rapist, I would still love him. He would still be my son, nothing can ever change that. I might be sickened by his acts, I might wish that I had been a better mother or prevented what he'd done and I'd SURE as heck feel guilt for still loving someone that could do such vile things.
    But I would still love him. It's hard-wired into me. He's my baby and always will be.
    I think what they are talking about when someone has their head so far up their behind that they can't even acknowledge that their child has done something wrong.

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  5. #103
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renesme View Post
    The justice system in itself is retarded. Take pedophiles for example. I really believe they can't help but be that way like being gay, or straight.. they are attracted to children and like "counselling" doesn't fix someone from being gay.. rehabilitation isn't going to stop someone from being attracted to children (Sorry I AM NO IN NO WAY SAYING THAT BEING GAY IS BAD OR EVEN RELATED TO PEDOPHILIA).

    Therefore I believe if someone has acted on being a pedophile and raped a child they should be locked up forever. Whether that be in a mental insituation.. a village type thing they are limited to or jail or what... rather than them being let out and doing this thing over and over again.
    I get what you're saying, but it differs from other sexual inclinations as it's actually considered a psychiatric condition. So in theory it could be cured, but as far as I'm aware there is no such cure yet.

    Therefore it often baffles me that paedophiles are put into normal prisons. By all means throw away the key, but shouldn't that key be to a psychiatric facility?

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  7. #104
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    My DH works in Texas, USA for a few weeks every few months. They have (one of) the highest rates for death by lethal injection.

    Last year he was over there when they were executing a Mexican and there was such a huge debate over the case and whether or not the death penalty should be used (in general). He found that 90% of his work colleagues were for it. These same ppl are good Christians that go to Church every Sunday. He found it all quite bizarre and felt he couldn't say that he doesn't agree with the penalty. Perhaps it's just because this is what is known and the way of doing things there that it's hard to challenge the status quo.

    Later in the year, we were both there and another inmate was undertaking their final appeal. Let me tell you I had a crash course in the legal system as well as not speaking my mind! (These ppl carry guns you know haha ).

    It apparently use to cost something like $85 to inject someone. Now it's like $1300 due to one of the drugs not being as readily available. Texas has its own penal code in regards to Capital Punishment defining what is it (pre-meditated murder, sex offences against under 14's etc). Also their political system is so different so even though Obama can request things, he doesn't actually have a say. :/

    Texas has life imprisonment as life without parole (from early 2000 onwards) and before this it was life but parole would be considered after 40 years of incarceration.

    Honestly I think if Texas didn't have CP then their media would die! The only thing that interrupted the on-going news of the appeal was to announce a beauty queen had been in a car accident! (Her face was ok though - phew!)

    Personally I'm against it, particularly after hearing so many stories from active groups trying to quash CP in America. I do however think that Aust needs tougher sentencing, as well as better intervention programmes for at-risk and repeat offenders. Pity that in Qld our "great premier" is actually cutting funds to this type of programme!

    PS - In no way am I saying I know anything about Texan laws, that was some of the 'facts' and information continually heard when over there. I haven't checked them for myself but seeming as I heard them straight from a po-leese officer over dinner, I assume them to be majority factual.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bubmum View Post
    Have you read We Need To Talk About Kevin. I wonder if that kid was a monster and his Mother didn't love him, or he was a monster because his Mother didn't love him?
    i only saw the movie but my understanding was he was strange from day 1.

    Good movie!

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    Yes, absolutely - our system is a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    That is a problem with the system.

  10. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    i only saw the movie but my understanding was he was strange from day 1.

    Good movie!
    I saw the movie too. The child was a weirdo from day dot but the fact his mum never excepted him didn't make him any better. That movie gave me chills I have to say!

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  12. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I get what you're saying, but it differs from other sexual inclinations as it's actually considered a psychiatric condition. So in theory it could be cured, but as far as I'm aware there is no such cure yet.

    Therefore it often baffles me that paedophiles are put into normal prisons. By all means throw away the key, but shouldn't that key be to a psychiatric facility?
    Most people in prison would have a diagnosable mental health problem. (That's not to say that people with mental health problems all commit crimes though, of course). Most have experienced significant trauma and loss. There is so much debate here about parents who stand by convicted criminals, but the majority would have been abandoned by their parents years ago.

    I'm not afraid to say that I DO have empathy for convicted criminals because i work hard to try to understand other human beings' experiences and motivations, which doesn't mean criminal behaviour is excused or ok, but life just isn't as conveniently 'black and white' as some would prefer to believe. I think its only through empathy and understanding that we can work towards more effective solutions to social issues such as this, tbh. And this is why we need to remain level-headed, rational and civilized about how we manage this problem, rather than indulging emotion-fueled, animalistic revenge fantasies.

    And we need better prevention programs and early intervention for juvenile offenders, as this is often when the unfortunate patterns of offending begin. Sadly, such programs cost money and take time to show results, hence aren't favored by governments focused on their next election. Oh, and most Aussies hate paying tax.

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  14. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABigDeepBreath View Post
    Most people in prison would have a diagnosable mental health problem. (That's not to say that people with mental health problems all commit crimes though, of course). Most have experienced significant trauma and loss. There is so much debate here about parents who stand by convicted criminals, but the majority would have been abandoned by their parents years ago.

    I'm not afraid to say that I DO have empathy for convicted criminals because i work hard to try to understand other human beings' experiences and motivations, which doesn't mean criminal behaviour is excused or ok, but life just isn't as conveniently 'black and white' as some would prefer to believe. I think its only through empathy and understanding that we can work towards more effective solutions to social issues such as this, tbh. And this is why we need to remain level-headed, rational and civilized about how we manage this problem, rather than indulging emotion-fueled, animalistic revenge fantasies.

    And we need better prevention programs and early intervention for juvenile offenders, as this is often when the unfortunate patterns of offending begin. Sadly, such programs cost money and take time to show results, hence aren't favored by governments focused on their next election. Oh, and most Aussies hate paying tax.
    I agree with this.

    And when I said empathy earlier on, it wasn't really what I meant. I meant more like if someone is against the death penalty, it doesn't mean they are ok with people going around and committing these crimes or think it's ok as some people were suggesting.

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    totally for it.

    in heinous crimes (especially where the offender has pleaded guilty) i think they have given up their right to live in a civilised society. eg. serial killers.
    life imprisonment (and life, as in they die from old age in prison) should be given for other heinous crimes where murder has not occured.

    ted bundy, myra hindley, the birnies.....they all tortured and murdered innocent people. why should taxpayers provide a warm bed, food, medicine, television, libraries, education for them?

    and the debate over what costs more (death penalty or incarceration) is an ongoing argument with no direct answer. it depends on individual cases, numbers of appeals, who represented etc.

    if anyone hurt my child, i would personally hunt down and kill the piece of sh*t Sally Field style in an Eye for an Eye.

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