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  1. #31
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    OK so I hope I don't offend anyone so I'll apologise in advance lol

    Many chaplains have just a counselling cert, (I have some inside knowledge being part of the P&C) which is 12 months. Some have a youth work TAFE course, which is 2 years.

    The issue is, particularly with the counselling cert, is it counselling skills and that's it. To be a good counsellor is more than just understanding the principles of counselling, like open and closed questions, agendas and reframing. You need to understand the dynamics *causing* the issues at hand.

    In a social work course we cover many modules on counselling, but also on child protection, multi culturalism, disability, drug and alcohol, research. So we aren't just taught the mechanisms of conducting a session but a deep insight into many more integral factors... and of course this goes for psychologists too.

    Of course I'm bias lol and I hope I don't come across as elitist, but there is a huge difference between a 12 month counselling cert or youth work and social work or psychology degree.

    Then there is the issue of their directive to not bring religion into it. Why therefore, employ chaplains instead of SW's and psych's?? The govt is being foolish employing religious people in a *kind of * religious position (thus the term chaplain) then expecting their views don't filter thru? The reason??? cost. While SW's are horribly paid for their experience and credentials, the govt plays chaplains even less, and since they aren't 'clinicians' they can argue they only need 5 hours a week instead of 20 bc they aren't doing clinical work.

    Get rid of the chaplains and put in fully qualified people without a religious agenda. That isn't a stab at religion, just an opinion from a social worker that thinks the chaplaincy program is a poor substitute.
    Last edited by delirium; 29-06-2012 at 18:36.

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  3. #32
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    I'm really not in the mood today AT ALL so I won't say much. My dh is an amazing youth worker and was once a chaplain. If only you could see the impact he has made on a personal level with the kids, it is quite phenomenal and he is doing it because he cares so much about the kids and families. He can relate to them and he has gotten kids to talk to him that just won't open up to anyone else, even those with degrees I really hate the way people look down their noses or make assumptions when I have seen the blood, sweat and tears he has put into helping others.

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  5. #33
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    I don't really care if there are chaplains, social workers, psychologists, youth workers or whatever, I'm not really into pushing the whole chaplain thing at all, I would just love to see people at ground level in schools helping those kids.

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  7. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refresh View Post
    I don't really care if there are chaplains, social workers, psychologists, youth workers or whatever, I'm not really into pushing the whole chaplain thing at all, I would just love to see people at ground level in schools helping those kids.
    This

  8. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Refresh View Post
    I'm really not in the mood today AT ALL so I won't say much. My dh is an amazing youth worker and was once a chaplain. If only you could see the impact he has made on a personal level with the kids, it is quite phenomenal and he is doing it because he cares so much about the kids and families. He can relate to them and he has gotten kids to talk to him that just won't open up to anyone else, even those with degrees I really hate the way people look down their noses or make assumptions when I have seen the blood, sweat and tears he has put into helping others.
    I'm sorry I offended that wasn't my intention. I know your husband is very dedicated to his work and has had great outcomes in your community My opinion was as I said, more in relation to the 12 month counselling cert. There's just no way the complexities of the job can be covered in a year which only teaches counselling skills. It's like sending a first year medical student into an OR to do an op.

    Anyway, again sorry if I offended.

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    It's really fine, as I said I'm not in a good mood ATM. It wasn't what you said just the whole thing. In the industry there IS alot of elitism which is really frustrating. It's very relevant to us at the moment.

  11. #37
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    SpecialPatrolGroup is offline T-rex is cranky until she gets her coffee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    OK so I hope I don't offend anyone so I'll apologise in advance lol

    Many chaplains have just a counselling cert, (I have some inside knowledge being part of the P&C) which is 12 months. Some have a youth work TAFE course, which is 2 years.

    The issue is, particularly with the counselling cert, is it counselling skills and that's it. To be a good counsellor is more than just understanding the principles of counselling, like open and closed questions, agendas and reframing. You need to understand the dynamics *causing* the issues at hand.

    In a social work course we cover many modules on counselling, but also on child protection, multi culturalism, disability, drug and alcohol, research. So we aren't just taught the mechanisms of conducting a session but a deep insight into many more integral factors... and of course this goes for psychologists too.

    Of course I'm bias lol and I hope I don't come across as elitist, but there is a huge difference between a 12 month counselling cert or youth work and social work or psychology degree.

    Then there is the issue of their directive to not bring religion into it. Why therefore, employ chaplains instead of SW's and psych's?? The govt is being foolish employing religious people in a *kind of * religious position (thus the term chaplain) then expecting their views don't filter thru? The reason??? cost. While SW's are horribly paid for their experience and credentials, the govt plays chaplains even less, and since they aren't 'clinicians' they can argue they only need 5 hours a week instead of 20 bc they aren't doing clinical work.

    Get rid of the chaplains and put in fully qualified people without a religious agenda. That isn't a stab at religion, just an opinion from a social worker that thinks the chaplaincy program is a poor substitute.
    Absolutely this.


    We require teachers to have the appropriate qualifications and registration with a professional association, so why should the people that children are seeing when they are distressed and vulnerable, not be held to similar standards?


    I once had a trade stall at a Scripture Union conference for chaplains and the christian sentiment in the room was very strong. It always seemed like a strange fit to have them installed into public schools, to me.

    I always thought it would be a pretty good job to be a chaplain, but that christianity thing kept getting in the way.
    Last edited by SpecialPatrolGroup; 29-06-2012 at 19:55.

  12. #38
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    Some have a youth work TAFE course, which is 2 years.


    Actually, it's a lot shorter than that. A normal Cert IV is around 6 months and if you happen to be working for an organisation that undertakes youth work, for example, youth corrections, then your job RPLs the entire lot.

    Honestly? Youth work qualifications in this country are a joke.

    As for "peering down my nose at those who don't have quals", I don't do that. I'm just a realist. Young people are such a vulnerable section of our community and in that community you come across those who require specialised assistance that demand a particularised set of skills. We owe it to them to ensure that those who assist them with very important parts of their lives are suitably qualified.

    As another poster has rightly pointed out, we expect our teachers to be suitably qualified and accountable, so why not counsellors? I don't see why you can justify one and not the other.

    The entire industry needs a real shakeup.

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  14. #39
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    I am against religious workers in government schools and believe that qualified social workers and mental health workers should be available in all public schools

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  16. #40
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    OJandMe is offline I am the strength my children will have.
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    I think in the end it comes down to funding and what benefits the students.

    Chaplains in State schools can't 'preach' or anything anyway... they are just there in a student support/counselling role.

    I support anything that can be available for students for the most time.

    At our school we have a Chaplain. She also has a youth work qual, so when the P&C voted at the beginning of this year they had to choose what role they would employ her in... either as student support, or chaplain...

    As a student support worker all funding would have been through the P&C.. they could only afford her three days a week...

    As a Chaplain, the church also funds her being there, so she was able to be there 4.5 days a week.

    What's more beneficial for student? That's the view our school took. Are we're very glad to have her 4.5 days.


 

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