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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    To be a counsellor you need to have at least a cert IV in your field, that is a standard requirement for counsellors whether they be breastfeeding counsellors or school chaplains. Just to clarify incase anyone thinks that they are unqualified, currently.

    Personally I don't care either way. I think it would be a big learning curve to work in an actual school, particularly high school.
    Not exactly. Chaplains need a cert 4 in either youth work OR pastoral care as a minimum. Pastoral care studies involve some training in regards to counseling but the whole idea is to come at it from a Christian perspective. Which will be of little use to a non Christian child in need of guidance and help. A chaplain with a cert 4 in pastoral are that may have lots of experience with youth within the confines of their church, say, is not qualified to counsel my atheist child within the confines of their limited training and experience. I'd much rather a person who has trained as a counselor or youth worker and has or wants experience with a diverse group of young people. I don't want someone preaching their god at my child if she is struggling. It won't help her. And her refusal to accept it might well bother a chaplain too for all I know.

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    But chapains are so limited in what they can talk about, they are not allowed to teach RE and aren't allowed to talk about God really at all. But, yes, the studies do come fro a Christian perspective. Doesn't mean they can't help all kids though, if they are the right person.

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    People (who just happen to be Religious - any Religion, not just Christianity) counselling children, with appropriate qualifications under their belt - fine.

    A Multi million dollar fund especially for Chaplains who may not have the correct training...not so fine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by missie_mack View Post
    Yes in theory. However your athiest child is not unique in this day and age. Any chaplain who has worked in a school would have a good idea what is going to sink or swim with a child.

    TBH I get that you have an issue with religion in general. But guessing at what they do and don't do is really drawing a long bow... what is next? A teacher that has qualifications in religious education cannot teach students in a public school because they know how to teach only from a religious perspective?
    No, that's totally different. A chaplain that only has a religious qualification like pastoral care is being allowed to counsel all students from their religious knowledge and standpoint. A teacher with RE qualifications would still need general teaching qualifications to legally be allowed to teach. Someone who is only qualified to teach religion can't get a job as a Mathis teacher for example.
    I don't believe religion has a place in public school, no. But if it is going to be there, it should be optional. And a child who needs counseling should get it from a counselor. Not a chaplain. Thinking back to high school, had my school counselor been a chaplain I'd have never gone to them. I would have felt too uncomfortable with the idea and the issues I had at that age would have gone on without help. I can see pretty clearly that I'd have gone down a very bad path indeed and my life (if I still had one) would have been extremely different. I'm not being dramatic, it's just simple truth. And I doubt I'm unique either. Many teens struggling with religion or avoiding it would feel the same. The two things just aren't them same IMO. Religion is not a substitute for proper mental health care.
    Also, we are a secular country, governmentally speaking. How can we place one religion above another in this way? Are we going to publicly fund monks, imams and rabbis to counsel children too?

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  10. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    People (who just happen to be Religious - any Religion, not just Christianity) counselling children, with appropriate qualifications under their belt - fine.

    A Multi million dollar fund especially for Chaplains who may not have the correct training...not so fine.
    Agreed.

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    I am not comfortable with chaplains in schools or RE in secular public schools. I grew up in a very damaging church in my experience with the majority of religions even the well meaning ones has been a negative one. So yes I am fairly biased. I would much prefer my child to have access to a trained, child psychologist/counselor with experience of a wide variety of familie structures, from different backgrounds and religions. I really worry about the agendas of the chaplains and the churches they are affiliated with. In my case at high-school I was very confused about my sexuality and I think a religious chaplain could have done alot of harm considering the stance of most religions on homosexuality. I think it is important for people to be trained properly in psychology and areas of human sexuality, gender identification ect and I worry that any religious chaplains might harm these kids.

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    Yep, chaplains are generally qualified in Youth Work.
    Not the ones I have encountered. And, to be honest, youth work qualifications aren't worth the paper they're written on. And I say this as a person who has worked with youth workers and someone who is privy to what constitutes a Cert IV Youth Work in Australia. Quite frankly, it's alarming.

    I think having tertiary qualified (and accountable) counsellors in schools rather than chaplains, rabbis, immams, whatever...is better for the future of any child given that correct guidance in terms of employment and adjustment to real life would have helped me in a myriad of ways had I access to this at high school.

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  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caviar View Post
    Not the ones I have encountered. And, to be honest, youth work qualifications aren't worth the paper they're written on. And I say this as a person who has worked with youth workers and someone who is privy to what constitutes a Cert IV Youth Work in Australia. Quite frankly, it's alarming.

    I think having tertiary qualified (and accountable) counsellors in schools rather than chaplains, rabbis, immams, whatever...is better for the future of any child given that correct guidance in terms of employment and adjustment to real life would have helped me in a myriad of ways had I access to this at high school.
    Totally agree

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    Quote Originally Posted by Refresh View Post
    But chapains are so limited in what they can talk about, they are not allowed to teach RE and aren't allowed to talk about God really at all. But, yes, the studies do come fro a Christian perspective. Doesn't mean they can't help all kids though, if they are the right person.
    They can't help but to answer from a religious perspective. A chaplain is not going help a girl obtain an abortion if she wants one when it goes against all they believe in. A chaplain cannot help a child who's realized they are homosexual ask their friend to the end of year formal if they believe that homosexuality is a sin.

    No matter how much they think they are the right person for the job they will have their own personal crisis when they need to support a child in crisis whose problem is seen as a mortal sin.

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