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  1. #521
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    Wha?? Haven't you ever heard the term "too posh to push", of course c/sections for no medical reason are challenged!

    I know that at least one of those deaths was when a homebirth was undertaken even though it was considered high risk (no not vbac).

    I actually like the sound of homebirth- I just don't like it when people become so determined to do it that nothing else mattes (ie, if they are high risk or whatever)

    I think homebirth being normalised and done through hospitals (not actually in hospital, connected to the maternity wing) on medicare is a great idea. Just so you all know where I stand.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I didn't miss your point, I know what you were trying to say and it was an illogical example to use.
    Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I'm not understanding you.

    Hang on, Mia is not just against freebirth, she has spoken out against homebirth aswell and in her article she spoke about those 4 deaths that have been in the news and those weren't freebirths. So we are on topic here.
    VicPark gave an example of a baby dying due to a vbac and I challenge her to look into that because there are no reported cases. Something else happened.
    People make alot of assumptions about things they're not really clued up on.
    There have been many comments in this thread of people being afraid and seeing homebirths and vbacs as high risk. This is fine, but its when its projected to other people that's the problem. Why aren't I only commenting on freebirth? Because that is not what's only in question. We're talking about people seeing anything that doesn't involve a dr or a hospital as more dangerous and I challenge that.

    A c/s has many complications, having an elective c/s for no medical reason isn't safer for the baby and its known as having more risks. Why is this ok? No one is addressing that either. There is a double standard when it comes down to it and you don't see anyone calling that selfish or a birthzilla? Having a c/s is the most controlled form of giving birth, its ironic someone would call someone a control freak for having a 'birth plan' but not someone having a c/s.

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  3. #522
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    In relation to having a natural birth after 1 or 2 caesareans, why would an obstetrician recommend a caesarean if it wasn't the best option? What do they have to gain? I *suppose* I could have gone that route, but my OB said it was better not to. Why would he have said that? If it really was higher risk for me to have a 3rd caesarean, why would he have put me and my baby at risk?

    Sorry, I haven't read every single post so sorry if this has already been discussed.

  4. #523
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Not even sure why we are talking about vbac homebirths, there doesn't seem to be much risk at all in that- I was talking about very high risk homebirths which you still haven't commented on.

    .
    It really depends on what you deem high risk. Some women think breech means automatic csection, no question, and many health care providers think the same however women can and do birth breech babies and at home too without complication.

    Some doctors won't even entertain the idea of a VBAC as its too risky.

    You would be really hard pressed to find anyone who would Homebirth with diagnosed complete placenta previa, women aren't idiots.

    Multiples, again lots of women birth twins at home and it's no big deal, some doctors will tell you that all multiples must be delivered by csection and others will say they must come early.

    This is why I really don't like the high risk label being applied routinely. Because what is high risk in one doctors eyes is just another normal pregnancy to another.

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  6. #524
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    Quote Originally Posted by Clarabelle View Post
    In relation to having a natural birth after 1 or 2 caesareans, why would an obstetrician recommend a caesarean if it wasn't the best option? What do they have to gain? I *suppose* I could have gone that route, but my OB said it was better not to. Why would he have said that? If it really was higher risk for me to have a 3rd caesarean, why would he have put me and my baby at risk?

    Sorry, I haven't read every single post so sorry if this has already been discussed.
    The advice depends on the Ob though. Mine encouraged a vbac and when I needed a second csec in the end (breech, fundal placenta and cord around neck) he told me that the difference in risk for vbac after one or two cesareans is not even worth mentioning and that there was no reason at all I couldn't natural birth next time.

    Advice depends on the Ob, their idea of risk and their priorities. Statistically speaking my Ob is right.

  7. #525
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    Wha?? Haven't you ever heard the term "too posh to push", of course c/sections for no medical reason are challenged!
    I think she means in relation to Mia's article.

    She doesn't challenge a csection as the women being "control freaks" but a woman requesting music in her birth plan Mia considers a "control freak". I know a LOT of women who requested or wanted a caesarian because the fear of the unknown was too much for them to handle. And I think this is fair enough if they have a genuine fear. But Mia doesn't call THEM a control freak despite the fact they want a csection because they want a controlled birth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elleandsam View Post
    It really depends on what you deem high risk. Some women think breech means automatic csection, no question, and many health care providers think the same however women can and do birth breech babies and at home too without complication.

    Some doctors won't even entertain the idea of a VBAC as its too risky.

    You would be really hard pressed to find anyone who would Homebirth with diagnosed complete placenta previa, women aren't idiots.

    Multiples, again lots of women birth twins at home and it's no big deal, some doctors will tell you that all multiples must be delivered by csection and others will say they must come early.

    This is why I really don't like the high risk label being applied routinely. Because what is high risk in one doctors eyes is just another normal pregnancy to another.
    Some twin births are extremely high risk - others aren't at all, if you had two separate sacks and both were head down, then yes. I can see why you would homebirth. But if you had twins that shared a placenta, where in the same sack with the umbilical cord floating around, then I wouldn't be able to fathom someone homebirthing.

    Even if Twin a is head down and twin b is breech it is safe to delivery vaginally, however if twin a is breech and twin b is head down then there is a very high chance of them becoming locked - jaw to jaw. That is the kind of high risk I mean. Not just a healthy twin birth. Do you know what I mean.

    At the end of they day - I suppose I believe in bodily autonomy up until a certain point. People say you can't either you support it or you don't. But here are lots and lots of things that humans do that they shouldn't do and we don't support them either because it'd dangerous...you know what you mean?

  10. #527
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    Quote Originally Posted by elleandsam View Post
    It really depends on what you deem high risk.
    I guess at the end of the day - if homebirth was done attached to a hospital, then high risk mothers would be picked up and discussions between homebirth midwives, doctors and mothers could occur. Then only those that are really necessary would need medical intervention etc.

  11. #528
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    I absolutely have heard the term 'too posh to push' but its also the women having c/sections who are saying 'birth plans are uneccessary' 'nothing goes to plan in a birth' 'these women just want control' 'it's all about the experience and not about the baby' 'I just want a healthy baby' 'homebirths are dangerous' 'these women are selfish' 'they're putting the baby in danger' AND THEN say 'but I'm all for choice it's not a competition'
    As long as the choice is the same one you'd make?

    I mean telling women feeling empowered during birth doesn't exist is just mind blowing. To tell women they should be handing over control of their bodies is a horrible message to give. I have no idea what feminism is, but to me she's really putting women down the barrell at the most vulnerable time in their lives.

  12. #529
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I guess at the end of the day - if homebirth was done attached to a hospital, then high risk mothers would be picked up and discussions between homebirth midwives, doctors and mothers could occur. Then only those that are really necessary would need medical intervention etc.
    That would be fine if women wanted to be involved in the hospital system but not all women do and that is their choice to make. We can't force women to see a doctor or attend a hospital simply because they're pregnant.

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  14. #530
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    Quote Originally Posted by elleandsam View Post
    That would be fine if women wanted to be involved in the hospital system but not all women do and that is their choice to make. We can't force women to see a doctor or attend a hospital simply because they're pregnant.
    Too true.


 

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