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  1. #501
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post

    And Thermolicious... Women's rights, human rights, my point remains the same. Do you support a woman's right to a hot air balloon birth? If like me you don't, because you believe it is clearly dangerous and reckless, then you and Mia are employing the same logic. It may make her mistaken and misinformed, but it doesn't make her a violator of human rights.
    There is a difference between not supporting a birth in a hot air balloon and not supporting homebirth full-stop. I urge you to look into 'birth as a human rights issue'.

    P.S I said I was out on the first page lol

    PPS yes I would support a birth in a hot air balloon lol seriously I can't imagine anyone ever choosing it I couldn't think of a more restrictive & windy location but whatever floats ya boat.
    Last edited by headoverfeet; 20-06-2012 at 00:07.

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  3. #502
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    lambjam is offline Nitwit! Blubber! Oddment! Tweak!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermolicious View Post
    There is a difference between not supporting a birth in a hot air balloon and not supporting homebirth full-stop. I urge you to look into 'birth as a human rights issue'.

    P.S I said I was out on the first page lol
    Not if you honestly believe that both are dangerous. I'm not saying that I do, but Mia does.

    P.S. It's one of those threads
    P.P.S. Ah see, I wouldn't. But I don't believe that is me violating human rights, I believe that's me employing common sense.
    Last edited by lambjam; 20-06-2012 at 00:13.

  4. #503
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    Not if you honestly believe that both are dangerous. I'm not saying that I do, but Mia does.

    P.S. It's one of those threads
    P.P.S. Ah see, I wouldn't. But I don't believe that is me violating human rights, I believe that's me employing common sense.
    Exactly and thats why she doesn't support human rights.

    PPS yes it is common sense I can't see it ever happening but if someone walked up to me and said they were planning one I'd support them (and probably ask if they were planning on video taping it!).

    Heres a good link to get you started

    http://www.midwiferytoday.com/articl...man_rights.asp

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermolicious View Post
    Exactly and thats why she doesn't support human rights.
    I can see we're not going to agree here. But let me ask you one more thing... What if homebirths *were* more dangerous? What if they resulted in an unacceptable number of deaths? Would you still consider them a human right?

    To Mia they represent an unacceptable risk. That doesn't make her an ogre, at worst it makes her uninformed. That's all I'm trying to say

  6. #505
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I can see we're not going to agree here. But let me ask you one more thing... What if homebirths *were* more dangerous? What if they resulted in an unacceptable number of deaths? Would you still consider them a human right?

    To Mia they represent an unacceptable risk. That doesn't make her an ogre, at worst it makes her uninformed. That's all I'm trying to say
    Yes I believe 100% in bodily autonomy. On the flip side would you still support an elective cs as human right?

    Yes, uninformed.. Yes..except I don't believe she is uninformed which is where I take issue. I don't understand how given they are as safe if not safer than a hospital birth (you know the spiel) she can't support them. It just doesn't work in my mind I can't make those dots join up. I mean I know and acknowledge they aren't for everyone and I would never dream of saying anyone should HB if they aren't wanting to do it but why not support other women who choose them? *this works both ways, I would never not support someone who wants an elective cs*

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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post
    I can see we're not going to agree here. But let me ask you one more thing... What if homebirths *were* more dangerous? What if they resulted in an unacceptable number of deaths? Would you still consider them a human right?

    To Mia they represent an unacceptable risk. That doesn't make her an ogre, at worst it makes her uninformed. That's all I'm trying to say
    Yes unless the law made them illegal.

    Many things carry risks to unborn babies, not just the way they are born, a doctor may deem it 'safe' to induce a woman over 40 weeks pregnant even though induction carries many known risks to mother and baby.

    A doctor may seen it 'safe' to use forceps to deliver a baby but they can and do injure and kill babies.

    I have my own personal views on people who knowingly choose dangerous options for the birth of their babies but unless they are breaking the law it is not my place to dictate what they can and can not do.

    A hospital birth is no safer just because it is a hospital, it is only safer if something goes wrong.

    Sent from my MB526 using BubHub

  9. #507
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thermolicious View Post
    Yes I believe 100% in bodily autonomy. On the flip side would you still support an elective cs as human right?
    Yes I do, in the same way I support homebirths. But *if* I considered either unnecessarily reckless or dangerous then I would not. To push the point once more, I do not consider a skydiving birth a human right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    Exactly why I would just never give birth in a public hospital, chose to go private and have the same person who had monitored me throughout my pregnancy delivery my babies. He knew my history, he knew what I did or didn't want and I trusted him completely to do the best for me.
    I went private with nr 1 and had a great ob/surgeon and anaethesist with my csec. It was bleepin expensive though (approx $7,000 out of pocket). Purely for the financial aspect I was considering going public for nr 2. After hearing some of the horror stories from all the ladies on here, I'm rethinking that... If I have to have another csec, I'd like the same team behind me!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I think you and Mia should do more research into vbac's and the actual risks involved. Having 2 previous c/s's doesn't mean its safer to do a c/s 3rd time around. This is the type of scare tactics that gets thrown around by people who don't even do the research and know what they're talking about. Vbac2 is not riskier than a 3rd c/section. .
    Can I ask where you got your information from? Not being narky, am seriously open to learning about this.

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    I was planning a freebirth, I started bleeding at 27 weeks, went to hospital, found out I had complete placenta previa, stayed in hospital for 8 weeks, had a csection under GA.

    When it comes down to it, women who plan homebirths do so because they want the best possible outcome for themselves and their baby. They're intelligent women who if the risks begin outweighing the benefits will transfer.

    I support every woman's right to refuse medical treatment, whether she be pregnant and refusing induction or csection or facing a cancer battle and refusing chemo. A woman's bodily autonomy does not go out the window just because she's pregnant. And when the risk is something like 0.5% of UR well that's hardly worth blinking at!

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