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  1. #441
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alimia View Post
    I don't think you get my point, even the most low risk pregancies can still have complications. I just know I would want as many experienced people around as possible.
    The thing is that those very people can be the primary reason for a birth going pear-shaped. Either because of intervening and over managing or simply their presence interfering with a woman's feeling of safety or privacy that enables the natural birthing hormones to take over.

    I know for myself, I had an amazing birth in hospital. I treasure that experience and am incredibly proud of it. I think the two major things that made it such a smooth and positive experience are that the hospital staff didn't believe that I was in labour so my partner and I were able to labour without interruption and that I was well informed and happy to question and refuse some suggested interventions. I had PE, so the midwives wanted me on my back with continuous fetal monitoring. The 3 minutes when I consented to this were the most excruciating and unmanageable minutes of my life. If I had continued to consent to it, I have no doubt that my labour and birth would have turned out very differently and not been the empowering, awe-inspiring experience that I treasure

  2. #442
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    People are saying traumatic birth has nothing to do with the topic and others are going off in tangents. But the reason we are discussing it, is bc it's a big reason WHY many women can be seen to micro manage their births. Rather than being an annoying PITA, maybe she infact is a woman scared it's going to happen again and feels the need for some control, something which she lacked in the past? maybe having an indepth birth plan, questioning every little thing is her way of overseeing there are no repeat episodes?

    Bc there are 2 distinct themes running thru the piece 1) competitive mums 2) women that are demanding, difficult mums to be in birth and over analyse everything.... women that all seem to be natural birthers.

    The 2nd theme is what most are annoyed about, not the first.

    All I can say is, I get my women try to micro manage everything.... and until you've had really bad trauma you simply don't understand. I don't mean that in a mean way, just that it's fact.

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  4. #443
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    Quote Originally Posted by delirium View Post
    People are saying traumatic birth has nothing to do with the topic and others are going off in tangents. But the reason we are discussing it, is bc it's a big reason WHY many women can be seen to micro manage their births. Rather than being an annoying PITA, maybe she infact is a woman scared it's going to happen again and feels the need for some control, something which she lacked in the past? maybe having an indepth birth plan, questioning every little thing is her way of overseeing there are no repeat episodes?

    Bc there are 2 distinct themes running thru the piece 1) competitive mums 2) women that are demanding, difficult mums to be in birth and over analyse everything.... women that all seem to be natural birthers.

    The 2nd theme is what most are annoyed about, not the first.

    All I can say is, I get my women try to micro manage everything.... and until you've had really bad trauma you simply don't understand. I don't mean that in a mean way, just that it's fact.
    *shakes hands*

    Fair enough. I can see that. I just don't see those women as falling within the range of birthzillas. At all.

    My focus was on the competitive mums bit. That gets my goat.
    Last edited by NancyBlackett; 19-06-2012 at 18:21.

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  6. #444
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    If (big if) my brother and his wife have another, they will have a plan. They will go public (our public system is fantastic) and have a water birth. If they don't get in, they live 2 minutes from the hospital so will have a water homebirth. My poor nephew should never have gone through what he did, he had a right to come into this world the way he needed it, without doctors pulling him out in their time, to their schedule with no valid reason.

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  8. #445
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    Totally disagree. A dr spends many years at school, college then medical school and an ob does a further few years. A midwife has a few years training to get a nursing degree and further training in low risk obstetrics. The 2 are totally not comparable. The midwife cannot manage high risk pregnancies and complications and should be transferring the care over to the dr when things don't go to plan.
    I think midwives see more births, so IMO, they are just as experienced at delivery. There was no ob at my daughter's birth.

    I do agree that obs are probably better trained for high risk and other complications. At my son's birth, there were a few midwives and an ob because his shoulder was stuck, but even though there was an ob there, the emergency button was pushed and in came another midwife to help deliver my son, not another doctor.
    Last edited by BigRedV; 19-06-2012 at 18:17.

  9. #446
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    People realise dr's aren't present at all deliveries? And a midwife will deliver the baby, and check the baby after a delivery not a dr? I had 2 midwives present during my vbac, thats it. No one came in to see us, no pead standing in the background. My midwife had 30 years experience and was amazing, does that compare to the student ob who came in to to do some stitches? I don't think so.

    I had no expectations with my first, no birth plan, and went with the flow. I had a terrible birth experience.
    I made a plan for my 2nd, did hypnotherapy for pain relief, did alot of research, knew what I wanted and how to achieve it and I had a wonderful birth. Even if it ended in another c/s at least I would have been satisfied that this time I did everything I could and didn't just hand over my body.
    Apparently I'm wrong and I'm glad I didn't take Mia's advice


    Lambjamb you said women shouldn't be allowed to birth how they want. Does that mean you will be ok with elective c/s's being banned? Is it fair for me to say women who choose elective cesaereans are selfish, are only thinking about themselves and not about the baby. Unless there is a medical necessity, elective c/c's are worse for the baby (more chance of breathing difficulties etc.) therefore these women are negligent? If something goes wrong during a c/s that would clearly not have happened during a vb can I say it's the womans fault and serves her right for not listening to dr's??? Is that fair to say?

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  11. #447
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    and I'll add, there is a definite place for obs. Sometimes birth, despite good management does go wrong and that's what they are for. For surgical birth. I don't think anyone is saying their isn't a place for them. Just that middies should have the 'normal' birth domain and obs should deal with the high risk surgical births. Drs and obs are not needed in a normal labour.

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  13. #448
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post

    Lambjamb you said women shouldn't be allowed to birth how they want. Does that mean you will be ok with elective c/s's being banned? Is it fair for me to say women who choose elective cesaereans are selfish, are only thinking about themselves and not about the baby. Unless there is a medical necessity, elective c/c's are worse for the baby (more chance of breathing difficulties etc.) therefore these women are negligent? If something goes wrong during a c/s that would clearly not have happened during a vb can I say it's the womans fault and serves her right for not listening to dr's??? Is that fair to say?
    I think that's a valid question, and I'm not saying elective c/s should be banned, but if we are to follow that route then the above is a fair discussion.

  14. #449
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndigoJ View Post
    If something went wrong in a low risk homebirth would you hold the mothers hand ect? I dont see the difference.
    Yes - because she is doing the best for her baby, it is low risk and low risk homebirths have less problems that hospital births.

  15. #450
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    I am astounded at some of the misinformation people are spouting regarding doctors.

    Now, your average intern may have only seen a couple of births so I agree that a midwife would be more qualified to deliver a baby. Resus I'm not so sure as an extra 'course' in resus is enough for me.

    However, obstetricians are highly trained in all deliveries, natural or not. They have spent 6 years at med school then another 6 years learning obstetrics. And believe me they see hundreds of natural births during their training. In fact, a number of my friends are obs/ registrar obs and they are passionate about natural births. They are trained to value a living mother and baby over a 'positive' birth experience. Sorry but that's how it is. If something goes wrong, even if the midwife has been there for 12 hours and the obs for 1 hour, it is always the doctors responsibility. They are the ones that will get sued. Do you know that even if a mother insists on going against docs advice, then the worst happens, the mother can and sometimes does sue the doctor anyway? "I was in pain, I wasn't thinking straight" "you should have insisted" they can say.

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