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  1. #101
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    The reason why birth trauma got mentioned even though it wasnt referred to in the story is because people want to avoid it.. and thats why they create birth plans and avoid intervention. Mia is mocking anyone who wants to birth without obstetricians and intervention.. people who want to avoid hospital and who dont beleive that a team of doctors is exactly what is needed to deliver a baby safely into the world. she made her feelings pretty clear.. isnt it nice she has a platform to do that?
    Who is she to deem what is safe and best? what is ridiculous and competitive? Many of us cant even afford the luxury of a team of obs if we wanted it. I birthed through my local hospy midwifery clinic. Maybe I think its hilarious and extreme that healthy low risk women pay thousands of dollars for a doctor to catch their baby.. just in case something goes wrong.. when you actually receive much the same in a public hospital (I dont think its extreme and ridiculous but its an example)..

    Why are Mia's fears and birth wishes acceptable and sane.. but its okay for her to take a stab at anyone different?

    For the record, I understand that she was mostly referring to "extreme" birthing..no midwife present etc.. placenta birthing and delayed cord clamping bla di bla.. it still ****es me off. Who is she to say that these women arent considering their babies well being and safety.. I think 99% of women absolutely are... and its foolish to assume that every health proffessional has our best interests at heart. The "best practice" for birth varies right around the world. Not every single thing that is standard in Australia is best for everyone. Times change Mia. Fourty years ago it was considered normal for women to birth under twilight anasthetic.. no idea what was going on and wake up with a baby in their arms they didnt remember delivering..

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  3. #102
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    I think we all are reading different articles. She isn't having a go at the way women birth - she is having a go at the competitiveness of it - and it is soo true, so many women are all competitive about it. Who cares if you freebirthed? I know I don't care, good one you, happy for you. But if you are going to come across a superior then don't bother. And that is the same for someone who has lovely c/section with no torn lady bits. Who cares? As long as you get the birth you want then that is fantastic, no need to make others feel less, wether you are a c/section parent or a natural drug free parent.

    Not sure why this article is so hard to grasp for some. I had horribly traumatic births and I can see nothing in this article that is saying 'suck it up, who cares if you have a traumatic birth'....what am I missing?

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  5. #103
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    I think we all are reading different articles. She isn't having a go at the way women birth - she is having a go at the competitiveness of it - and it is soo true, so many women are all competitive about it. Who cares if you freebirthed? I know I don't care, good one you, happy for you. But if you are going to come across a superior then don't bother. And that is the same for someone who has lovely c/section with no torn lady bits. Who cares? As long as you get the birth you want then that is fantastic, no need to make others feel less, wether you are a c/section parent or a natural drug free parent.

    Not sure why this article is so hard to grasp for some. I had horribly traumatic births and I can see nothing in this article that is saying 'suck it up, who cares if you have a traumatic birth'....what am I missing?
    She is saying the experience doesn't matter and for me, in hindsight it did.

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  7. #104
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    The way I am reading it, is that she isn't saying that a traumatic birth doesn't matter. I may be reading it different?

  8. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    The way I am reading it, is that she isn't saying that a traumatic birth doesn't matter. I may be reading it different?
    She is saying no birth matters. At all.

  9. #106
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    Ugh. Detest Mia Freedom.

    Over 4 children, I have managed to move from a c-section under a GA to a freebirth. My experiences are what they are, some I talk about with gut wrenching heartache and anger, others I talk about with beaming pride and joyfulness. My experiences are to me what they are and no one else has the right to comment on them and how I should feel towards them.

    Sure, all any woman wants is a healthy baby, we'd be rather odd if we didn't aim for a healthy baby, but to some women, how we get that healthy baby IS important. It may not be for every one, and that's okay, but just because the birth doesn't mean something to *you* doesn't mean I have to feel like that too.

    Birth trauma is real. Some women go to great lengths to try and avoid birth trauma, and if that means having a 10 page birth plan and making her wishes clear, then so be it. The longer we deny birth trauma, the longer we enforce the 'a healthy baby is all that matters' line, the more we may just see an increase in PND and PTSD.

    Don't invalidate women and their feelings towards their birth by touting the 'healthy baby' line, it's not helping.

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  11. #107
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    I think the bottom line is that a small percentage of women can be quite rude to others about their birth choices. Some vb'ers can be nasty and condesending to c/s'ers, some c/s women can be quite rude and PA to natural birthers. It does nothing but cause a divide.

    But I think what most in this thread are saying is that by her words she is actually adding to this angst. She in fact is making some condesending comments to HB'ers and the like that they are selfish and 'me me me' and basically saying no one cares, you had a healthy baby, so I find her article hypocritical.

    Most here that are passionate, what ever method they choose, are passionate about their own birth, and really, if they want to be, that's their choice. The issue comes when they try to sway others.

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  13. #108
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    I think having a planned free birth is negligent.

    I'm a huge supporter of home birthing, but having a trained support person present can be the difference between life and death, even in a relatively straight forward labour and birth.

    I don't under the concern about having a MW present or how it takes away from the experience.

  14. #109
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    The reason people are mentioning birth trauma is because, as others have said, birth trauma is what a lot of us are aiming to avoid when we make our birth plans (written or simply just options selected in our minds). We may have experienced a disappointing result previously and want to avoid that happening again.

    We may be proud of our ability to succeed and get a better birth next time... but why shouldn't we be? Surely, if you try something and it fails, you feel good about yourself when you make some changes and it actually works? Don't people feel proud when they do something good for themselves? Don't people feel proud when they FINALLY find a diet that works for them and sees themselves lose 10kg? Don't people feel proud when they've overcome a fear (perhaps skydiving after overcoming a fear of heights)? Don't people feel proud when they've spent weeks or months trying to learn to ride a bike and then finally... they can?

    So why is it wrong to feel proud of the fact that you took your birth into your own hands and made decisions which saw you get the result you wanted? Not JUST a healthy baby, becase we all want that... but also a healthy, happy, satisfied mother? A mother who overcame whatever it was she needed to overcome to get those results? Why should she not be proud? Why should she NOT feel happy when she thinks of that experience?

    She bloody well deserves to feel proud IMO.

    Of course, if she spends her time saying, "Oh, I don't care if you had a wonderful caesarean birth...you're an idiot if you think it was anything near as good as my amazing natural birth!" then yeah, she's a tosser, but generally, I think most are simply proud of what they achieved and it has nothing to do with what anyone else has done.

    Like I said, I will gloat to the high heavens when I have a HBAC... but it will be because I will be PROUD of myself for getting there... not to diminish someone else's experience, or to tell them that they'll never be happy unless they do things the way I did.

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  16. #110
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    headoverfeet is offline The truth will set you free, but first it will **** you off. -Gloria Steinem
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebs View Post
    The way I am reading it, is that she isn't saying that a traumatic birth doesn't matter. I may be reading it different?
    Your right she's not, she doesn't mention trauma at all, but in saying the experience doesn't matter she is dismissing those who had negative experiences. Lots of people who have a negative experience will go onto have a birth plan next time or will try to take more control, some will choose to birth a different way or in a different location she bags those people as birthzillas.


 

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