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  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kimberleygal1 View Post
    No I would continue to parent as I see fit, no one has the right to tell me what I can or can't do with my children. I am the parent and no one will ever take that right away from me. If I feel that it's appropriate to smack my child on that very rare occasion when all else fails I will.
    The state does have the right and there are consequences for not adhering to their rules about your children.

    Or are you really that naive?

    It upsets and disgusts me that your same reasoning could be applied to a wide range of abuse, would you really find that okay? I mean, it's their kids, they can do what they want with them.

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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    But there are consequences to misbehavior in relationships though? If your partner cheated on you, there's the consequence to him of losing his wife/partner, etc. If your partner hits you, you don't hit them back(except in extreme cases, to my understanding) you leave them and/or have them charged for assault.
    If I steal from work, I lose my job. There are consequences to every action a person undertakes, which is what we OUGHT to be teaching our children. Rather than "If you do that, I'll hit you."
    Adults and children ARE disciplined (via consequences) in different ways... by your own admission, it's leaving and firing and such, something you can't really do with a child.

    So can you really not see there is no real comparison to be made between smacking a child and smacking your partner? Both are disciplined differently and what's effective and appropriate for a child is not effective or appropriate for an adult. You're also not there to teach your partner lessons, you are with your child.

    Like I said previously, I don't smack because I don't view it as useful, I just do not see a reasonable comparison between smacking your child as discipline and beating your wife as discipline.

  4. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by SassyMummy View Post
    Adults and children ARE disciplined (via consequences) in different ways... by your own admission, it's leaving and firing and such, something you can't really do with a child.

    So can you really not see there is no real comparison to be made between smacking a child and smacking your partner? Both are disciplined differently and what's effective and appropriate for a child is not effective or appropriate for an adult. You're also not there to teach your partner lessons, you are with your child.

    Like I said previously, I don't smack because I don't view it as useful, I just do not see a reasonable comparison between smacking your child as discipline and beating your wife as discipline.
    I don't see smacking as discipline in general, so that's probably why I can draw a comparison. Both beating your wife and smacking your child is taking away a persons right to bodilly autonomy, and to the right to be safe and own themselves. As I said, what happens if your child says "No, don't hit me"?? Is it still discipline to continue doing it, for the people who see it as discipline? or is it then assault? Do you stop when your children say "no", or do you still continue to do it, because you view it as discipline? If you stop when your children say "no" then why would you do it beforehand? Your children aren't able to speak to say "no", so that, to me, makes it even worse.

    This is a general "you" btw, not directed at you, Sassy.

    Sorry, just an edit: For the people who say it's for shock value, and they don't do it hard enough to hurt, hold your hand up to your childs bottom/hand/legs(whatever part is the part that gets smacked). See the size/weighed difference? Your hands are desensitized to a lot of things due to work/heat/callous/etc. Now, go to your DP, get him to hold up a hand for you to look at. My partners hands are MASSIVE. He's hit me, playfully, once. We were wrestling/mucking around. He honestly had not thought he'd hit me hard enough to hurt me, but due to the size difference in him and I, the callous, the skin difference, the muscle/weight difference in us, and trust me when I say his arms are HUGE, it did hurt.
    Last edited by Jennaisme; 19-06-2012 at 18:42.

  5. #214
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    For us, crossing the line would be to smack at all. We don't smack.

    ***Sent from my phone***

  6. #215
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    "Bodily autonomy"?! That's pretty funny. I spend so much time wrestling clothes on and off my son, plonking him on toilets, giving him medicine when he's sick, brushing his teeth, all "against his consent". What a terrible mother I am, not respecting his rights as a human being.


    On another issue though - while I am pro smacking in certain situations and with strict guidelines I believe that the "only as a last resort, and only in safety situations" thing is rubbish and an example of bad "smacking technique" because those are the smackers that aren't thought out or controlled or part of a wider discipline process. I agree with the anti-smack brigade that smacking because of running away in a carpark etc is totally inappropriate and unfair.

  7. #216
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    I was smacked, and it didn't affect me negatively at all. My parents definitely smacked out of anger and frustration, but I don't class it as abuse. Some of the PPs stories are horrific though, I'm so sorry you went through that.For my family personally, I don't smack. I don't believe an occasional smack would do any major emotional or physical harm (although I wouldn't want to take that risk, no matter how small). The main reason we don't is because I believe it would be counterproductive to what I am trying to teach my son. He can be quite physically aggressive towards other kids, and I believe that if I smacked him for any reason it just teaches him that yes, it is ok to hit sometimes, especially if you are bigger, or don't like what the other person is doing. It's not the message I want him to get!

  8. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmyB View Post
    "Bodily autonomy"?! That's pretty funny. I spend so much time wrestling clothes on and off my son, plonking him on toilets, giving him medicine when he's sick, brushing his teeth, all "against his consent". What a terrible mother I am, not respecting his rights as a human being.
    wheres if dd wont sit on the toilet, the natural consequence is that she must wear a nappy.
    if she wont wear clothes/brush her teeth then we stay home from town/playgroup/playdates, as they are things we do to leave the house.
    she has the right to say 'no' to me at any time, she owns her body but there are things that need to be done as part of society.Id never force her to do something, just as Id expect others to respect my ownership of my own body.
    how do you go from 'i have the right to force you to do things with your body' to 'you have the right to say 'no' if you arent comfortable'

  9. #218
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    Quote Originally Posted by trishalishous View Post
    wheres if dd wont sit on the toilet, the natural consequence is that she must wear a nappy.
    if she wont wear clothes/brush her teeth then we stay home from town/playgroup/playdates, as they are things we do to leave the house.
    she has the right to say 'no' to me at any time, she owns her body but there are things that need to be done as part of society.Id never force her to do something, just as Id expect others to respect my ownership of my own body.
    how do you go from 'i have the right to force you to do things with your body' to 'you have the right to say 'no' if you arent comfortable'
    And how do you get the "natural consequence" nappy on her if she doesn't want it? Also I am not comfortable with my son's teeth decaying so I would never let him get away with not brushing. More examples - I have held him down for blood tests and x-rays.

    My DS absolutely does not make the decisions. He has no right to say no to me. A decade or so of him learning, being guided by us, growing up and we will gradually learn to negotiate, work together. Then he gets the right to make his own decisions and the right to bodily autonomy. Children are NOT little adults.

    I respect your right to parenting style, but I totally disagree.

  10. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmyB View Post
    And how do you get the "natural consequence" nappy on her if she doesn't want it? Also I am not comfortable with my son's teeth decaying so I would never let him get away with not brushing. More examples - I have held him down for blood tests and x-rays.

    My DS absolutely does not make the decisions. He has no right to say no to me. A decade or so of him learning, being guided by us, growing up and we will gradually learn to negotiate, work together. Then he gets the right to make his own decisions and the right to bodily autonomy. Children are NOT little adults.

    I respect your right to parenting style, but I totally disagree.
    I actually find this really sad. Your son has no right to say no to you? Your son has no right to tell you not to hit him? After a decade of being told he has no right to say no, I'm living proof of how hard it is to change that mentality.
    I had no "right" to say no for a decade and a half. It's taken me nearly ten years to remember that I DO have that right. Your cursed right I have the right to say "no", I've ALWAYS had the right to say no. The horrors inflicted on me by people who are supposed to love, protect, care and nuture me because THEY thought I had no right to say "no" have scarred me, but the worst of it was the fact that I had no right to say "No, don't do that. I don't like it." I then had a lot of problems saying "no" when people want me to do things. I have personal space issues now, but if someone hugs me, it's taken me a VERY long time to know I have the right to say "no". It's taken me a VERY long time to know that I have the right to say "no" to someone hitting me, as well, which has, on occasion, landed me in relationships where I thought my partner had the right to hit and belittle me. It's taken me a long time to not expect the people who love me to lay hands on me and harm me in any way.
    I honestly hope people who think their children have no right to say "no" to them, really think about what they're doing. For me, the physical abuse and the marks from it, they went away and healed. The mental, not so much. My current DP was horrified when I cringed when we had an argument, he raised his hands to run them through his hair as he does when he's frustrated. I told him if he was going to hit me, okay, but get it "over and done with quickly and please don't leave marks. I work in retail". I wasn't challenging him. I was hoping to be able to still go to work,
    Bodilly autonomy, yes, your children have the right to it. They NEED to be dressed to go out in public, yep. They NEED to have x-rays and blood tests done, for their own health and well being.
    I just can't fathom, in my own mind, how physically harming a child would be for their own health and well being. But that's because my experiences influence how I see things. I certainly hope they atleast influence people to not think their children have no right to say "no" to them.

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  12. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennaisme View Post
    It's taken me a long time to not expect the people who love me to lay hands on me and harm me in any way.
    I am truly very sorry for what you've been through Jennaisme, and I understand why you feel the way you do, but this is not my son's world.


 

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