Spin off-child welfare

[Buttoneska]

Smacking and yelling are not called abuse in a legal sense either, but gee whizz people scream abuse at both of these. Same with swearing around kids, not illegal but people say it is abusive.

Yeh I do agree - I personally would never smoke in front of kids, but I don't think I would call DOCS on someone who did. But yeh I find it really wrong and definatly neglect.

But then I also think putting a kid in front of the TV all day every day is neglect too.

I just think they are on the more minor end of the spectrum (while still not ideal)

[Benji]

Smacking and yelling are not called abuse in a legal sense either, but gee whizz people scream abuse at both of these. Same with swearing around kids, not illegal but people say it is abusive.

I don't really take issue with the first two. I have seen a lot of mums here say they leave ABC2 running all day and I still consider them pretty switched on mums. I don't know many kids who would watch tv all day, they'd more likely have it on in the background while doing other things in between.

The hair thing, pfff... I don't even see the issue with messy hair??

Smoking one is the only scenario there I feel uncomfortable with.

I think physically striking a child is different to messy hair or watching tv. Yelling...depends on the yelling and what they are yelling but I would say both could be classified as abuse depending on where child is smacked and how hard and what the parent is yelling and how.

[emzluvbub]

I don't understand why this is being asked. Sounds pretty judgemental to me.

Not one of those scenarios calls for any type of discussion about neglect.

The smoking thing is tough because if it was outside I can see why people think it's fine. I grew up in a house where there was always a haze of smoke in the living room...we simply didn't know better and out of all my cousins, the only one with asthma is the one who was born after everyone had quit smoking. The message is getting out there but as with everything our parents did, there are people who use the old 'My mum did it and I turned out fine' chestnut. It's not ideal but it's not abuse or neglect IMHO.

Hair? Gawd, lock my mum up now. My sister (8) ALWAYS looks like she just got up. And her hair only gets washed every few days. Why? Because she inherited our horrible thicker than thick hair and it is impossible to keep nice. We're always telling her to brush it and she comes back looking the same LOL.

And the TV thing, some mothers just struggle. I do. I'm currently in a low point in my depression and I can't even keep my house tidy. DS gets plenty of me, but he also spends a lot of time on the floor (currently learning to crawl) amusing himself. I'm not a bad mother. I'm a great mother. I'm just struggling with a mental illness that is no fault of my own. If someone judged me by that, it shows more about their character than mine.

[lil miss]

At what point does it become child abuse or neglect?

Just to get the ball rolling let's consider a few scenarios
Scenario 1
A child whose hair gets really tangled and looks really unkept even although she was bathed yesterday and had their hair washed with shampoo and then conditioner used. They then go out with messy hair because the child screams "blue murder" if you try to go near them with a brush?

scenario 2

The parent who smokes while holding their toddler

Scenario 3

The mum who sits on the sofa all day, and leaves the tv on to entertain the child(the child is "supervised" and toys are available)

I could think of many more but am sure this is enough to get the ball rolling.

Another one guilty of all 3. Not child abuse- I'm sure if there were any concerns for our childrens safety we would not be approved kinship carers through DoCS. And I'm sure they would step in. Ob and we smack our own children. Which we had to tell DoCS as part of the whole application process. No issue with it at all, providing we don't smack the child in our care (who is DH's sister and 15 so not an issue anyway).

[halloweendee]

none of them are abuse.

some may be undesirable, but imo not abuse or neglect.