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  1. #61
    Ulysses's Avatar
    Ulysses is offline In the eyes of a child you will see...the world as it should be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Regina Phalange View Post
    I've still never met an athiest who understands the bible well at all (I am thinking particularly content, some athiests do research the origins of the bible perhaps) - but perhaps one day, I will, and we might have an interesting discussion
    Here is an article that contains a survey which revealed Atheists and Agnostics knew more than those with Faith.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2010/sep...urvey-20100928

    The Article speaks for itself.


    I have met many Atheists that know the bible back to front and they take great pride in their research and how their knowledge (not faith) shaped their decision. Just because people don't agree with something doesn't mean they can't understand it. The very nature of being an athiest means you are constantly challenged for your beliefs, they often need to understand the bible in order to defend their stance. They also , often come from religion and decide (after alot of reflection and study) to change their status and no longer believe in a god or a religion. Many people in religions tend to have blind faith rather than study ( not all - but many that i know).

    I grew up in a strict catholic family, went to a catholic school and yet my husband who was a jehovah's witness knew far more about the bible and the catholic religion than I did.

    Some religions encourage studying their own beliefs as well as others, others tend to rely on the premise that their beliefs are true so no need to investigate their own religion. Atheists, often know alot about the bible but also about other religions - which puts them at an advantage in some situations. The survey showed this as well.
    Last edited by Ulysses; 03-07-2012 at 07:25.

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    Not entirely sure what the rules are in schools but back in the day when I was at school, a catholic muslim friend of mine got into SO much trouble when her parents said she wasn't allowed to do RE. Everyone else did it so they were going to force her... It was awful. Anyway her parents kicked up a stink and myself and another friend elected to also not do RE so that our friend didn't have to. They said they weren't going to waste a teacher on supervising one student alone.

    Awful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mishh View Post
    a catholic muslim friend
    A what?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post


    I guess what you are saying here, or what I am reading, is that even people who call themselves Christian don't understand the bible well enough. Since the Old Testament is constantly referred to in modern times for reason to not give equal rights to gay people.
    Homosexuality is mentioned several times in the new testament as well. Jesus nor the bible dont specifically mention the word "homosexual" simply because the word hadn't yet been invented. But its very clear in mentioning the practice

    Romans 1:24-27

    "God, in keeping with the desires of their hearts, gave them up to uncleanness, that their bodies might be dishonored among them . . . God gave them up to disgraceful sexual appetites, for both their females changed the natural use of themselves into one contrary to nature; and likewise even the males left the natural use of the female and became violently inflamed in their lust toward one another, males with males, working what is obscene and receiving in themselves the full recompense, which was due for their error.”


    1 Timothy 1:9-11

    “Law is promulgated, not for a righteous man, but for persons lawless and unruly, ungodly and sinners, . . . fornicators, men who lie with males, . . . and whatever other thing is in opposition to the healthful teaching according to the glorious good news of the happy God.”


    Jude 7.

    “Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities about them, after they . . . [had] gone out after flesh for unnatural use"

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    “Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men . . . will inherit God’s kingdom"


    One can disagree with the bibles viewpoint but you cant reason that the bible doesnt condemn homosexuality.

    Homosexuality is encompassed in the word 'fornication (Greek "Por.niei'a)in the bible also as the bible makes it clear that marriage and sexual relations were only to be between a husband and a wife or a male and female, Jesus also confirmed this and condemned sex outside of marriage and fornication (which includes homosexuality, adultery etc)

    Porneia (fornication) can be found in Greek literature with reference to a variety of sexual practices, including adultery, fornication, prostitution, and homosexuality.
    Last edited by ShanandBoc; 03-07-2012 at 12:40.

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    Shanandboc - I'd like to hear your opinion (yours - not a copy and paste of someone elses opnion) ...of the docomentary I have linked in this section in a different thread.

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    Whilst I won't dispute what is currently written in the bible, I refuse to believe what man wrote about Jesus as there are so many inconsistencies in the NT and so much missing.

    Even the 4 main books have inconsitancies between them - so unfortunately quoting the bile at me is not going to make me believe what is in the bible says.

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    I have stated my opinion? - aswell as quoted verses from the bible? and no thanks not interested...i know what the bible clearly says and i stand by Gods word.
    Last edited by ShanandBoc; 03-07-2012 at 22:46.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ShanandBoc View Post

    1 Corinthians 6:9-11

    “Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men . . . will inherit God’s kingdom"


    One can disagree with the bibles viewpoint but you cant reason that the bible doesnt condemn homosexuality.

    Homosexuality is encompassed in the word 'fornication (Greek "Por.niei'a)in the bible also as the bible makes it clear that marriage and sexual relations were only to be between a husband and a wife or a male and female, Jesus also confirmed this and condemned sex outside of marriage and fornication (which includes homosexuality, adultery etc)

    Porneia (fornication) can be found in Greek literature with reference to a variety of sexual practices, including adultery, fornication, prostitution, and homosexuality.

    You missed part of that verse and, I am sure the original word used in that verse was akatharsia meaning unclean not porneia

    Even if a person believes that 1 Corinthians 6-10 means that homosexuality is a sin, the rest of the verses does say they can inherit the kingdom of god if they choose to believ in god. The next verse does not say they have to stop being gay.
    1 Corinthians 6:11 - "And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."(NIV)
    Its all in the interpretation.





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    Quote Originally Posted by ShanandBoc View Post
    I have stated my opinion? - aswell as quoted verses from the bible? and no thanks not interested...i know what the bible clearly says and i stand by Gods word.

    Sent from my GT-I9100T using BubHub

    I can see that - I was seeking your opinion 'after' watching the doco - I only watched it last night and found it very interesting...many of the people in it are religious..one man who is gay even goes on to become a bishop.

    They talk about how some passages taken out of context or being misinterpreted can lead some people to think different things.
    and how some churches can preach a 'spin' on an incorrect interpretation.

    (which makes sense to me - considering most people go off of an edited, translated, re edited, re translated, ommited, re edited, and re edited version of the bible.)

    for example - this passage could be taken a few different ways?

    Deuteronomy 22:28-29 reads,
    “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”


    If you can defend THIS passage and not see the point of view of others defending the passages that get quoted about homosexuality - then, that makes me sad.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FiveInTheBed View Post
    I can see that - I was seeking your opinion 'after' watching the doco - I only watched it last night and found it very interesting...many of the people in it are religious..one man who is gay even goes on to become a bishop.

    They talk about how some passages taken out of context or being misinterpreted can lead some people to think different things.
    and how some churches can preach a 'spin' on an incorrect interpretation.

    (which makes sense to me - considering most people go off of an edited, translated, re edited, re translated, ommited, re edited, and re edited version of the bible.)

    for example - this passage could be taken a few different ways?

    Deuteronomy 22:28-29 reads,
    “If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl’s father fifty shekels of silver. He must marry the girl, for he has violated her. He can never divorce her as long as he lives.”


    If you can defend THIS passage and not see the point of view of others defending the passages that get quoted about homosexuality - then, that makes me sad.
    Those scriptures are very very clear. I let the bible guide my thinking not opinions of people who are out to lax Gods standards.

    As far as the scripture in Duet, you have to look at it in context. It is in regards to laws of the nation of Israel, its a historical record not specific instruction like the new testament.

    This was a case of pressured seduction and/or fornication. If an unscrupulous man felt at liberty to have sex relations with a virgin, she would be the primary loser. Besides the possibility that she might have an illegitimate child, her value as a bride was diminished, for many Israelites might not want to marry her once she was no longer a virgin. What, though, would discourage a man from taking liberties with a virgin? God’s “holy and righteous and good” Law would.—Romans 7:12.
    The Mosaic code had a provision allowing a man to divorce his wife for certain reasons. (Deuteronomy 22:13-19; 24:1; Matthew 19:7, 8) But what we read at Exodus 22:16, 17 and Deuteronomy 22:28, 29 shows that the option of divorce disappeared after premarital fornication. This, then, might cause a man (or a virgin woman) to resist a temptation to share in fornication. A man could not feel, ‘She is pretty and exciting, so I’ll have a good time with her even though she is not the sort I’d like to marry.’ Rather, this law would deter immorality by causing any would-be offender to weigh the long-term consequences of fornication—having to stay with the other party throughout his life as he had violated and humiliated her.
    The Law also lessened the problem of illegitimacy. God decreed: “No illegitimate son may come into the congregation of Jehovah.” (Deuteronomy 23:2) So if a man who seduced a virgin had to marry her, their fornication would not result in an illegitimate offspring among the Israelites.
    It was a law to discourage a man from treating a woman in such a way and as the quoted text says lessen the problem of illegitimacy


 

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