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  1. #21
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    Ulysses is offline In the eyes of a child you will see...the world as it should be.
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    EmyB, that is a really good question.

    The American Psychological Association, which is pretty much the governing body of Psychologists, recommends the following based on this research;

    "The intervention program is built on four key principles. These principles involve creating a school - and ideally, also a home - environment characterized by: (1) warmth, positive interest, and involvement from adults; (2) firm limits on unacceptable behavior; (3) consistent application of non-punitive, non-physical sanctions for unacceptable behavior and violation of rules, and, (4), adults who act as authorities and positive role models. The program works both at the school, the classroom and the individual levels, and important goals are to change the "opportunity and reward structures" for bullying behavior, resulting in fewer opportunities and rewards for bullying".

    taken from http://www.apa.org/research/action/bullying.aspx

    But I am having a look through my notes as we speak, and will get back to you if I spot some other info that could be helpful.

    So good to hear so many parents such as yourself are trying to tackle this issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulysses View Post
    EmyB, that is a really good question.

    The American Psychological Association, which is pretty much the governing body of Psychologists, recommends the following based on this research;

    "The intervention program is built on four key principles. These principles involve creating a school - and ideally, also a home - environment characterized by: (1) warmth, positive interest, and involvement from adults; (2) firm limits on unacceptable behavior; (3) consistent application of non-punitive, non-physical sanctions for unacceptable behavior and violation of rules, and, (4), adults who act as authorities and positive role models. The program works both at the school, the classroom and the individual levels, and important goals are to change the "opportunity and reward structures" for bullying behavior, resulting in fewer opportunities and rewards for bullying".

    taken from http://www.apa.org/research/action/bullying.aspx

    But I am having a look through my notes as we speak, and will get back to you if I spot some other info that could be helpful.

    So good to hear so many parents such as yourself are trying to tackle this issue.
    Excuse my ignorance, but what would a non-punitive sanction look like exactly? My boys, especially the four year old has been so naughty lately and I'm struggling to know how best to respond to it - time out? Withdraw privileges? Rewards/ bribes for good behaviour? Take his money/ toys / etc... He's naughty WHILE he's in time out. I remove EVERYTHING (not all at once). I feel like I have to pay him in chocolate/ lollies/ cash for every good snippet of behaviour and then he's naughty between earning the treat and receiving it!

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    I haven't read all the posts, but "Children are People too" by Dr Louise Porter and anything by Alfie Kohn give great insight into why refraining from praise/punishment can be beneficial

    http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm

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  5. #24
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    Ulysses is offline In the eyes of a child you will see...the world as it should be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lulululu View Post
    Excuse my ignorance, but what would a non-punitive sanction look like exactly? My boys, especially the four year old has been so naughty lately and I'm struggling to know how best to respond to it - time out? Withdraw privileges? Rewards/ bribes for good behaviour? Take his money/ toys / etc... He's naughty WHILE he's in time out. I remove EVERYTHING (not all at once). I feel like I have to pay him in chocolate/ lollies/ cash for every good snippet of behaviour and then he's naughty between earning the treat and receiving it!
    I totally relate to this question, i have a two yr old who has recently decided being naughty is great fun.

    I actually just finished writing a report on this at uni, and I can tell you what the research suggests but each child is different and there are always exceptions - so these are just guidelines.

    Basically punitive (harsh punishment) has been linked with negative behavioural outcomes. Punitive punishment is different to physical punishment, it refers to harsh or stern disciplinarian techniques - these techniques have been shown time after time to be unsuccessful.

    The most successful style of parenting is termed Authoritative and the least effective style is termed Authoritarian. The definition of Authoritative parenting is great - I really love it, I hope I can be this way - but I have to remind myself about it all the time because it can be easy to get caught up in the naughty moments and trying to control bad behaviour - anyway here is a link describing this style in more detail - it is basically trying to strike a balance between allowing kids to develop as individuals but also setting clear rules about what is acceptable. Have a look at this site - I have it linked to the page on this parenting style: http://www.positive-parenting-ally.c...ng-styles.html

    Physical punishment is of course a topic of great debate so i wont even enter my own opinion about it, all i can say is the empirical evidence is pretty heavily in the favour of no physical punishment at all. The reason is because the exact level that is not related to negative outcomes is not known (so its a little bit like the no alcohol rule in pregnancy - just erring on the side of caution).

    I have a huuuuuuge amount of empirical evidence for this, so if anyone would like to see it I am happy to link it - as i said i had to write a report for the effects of corporal punishment this semester so this information is totally factual and not based on my personal opinion whatsoever.

    Here is what the research suggests:

    time out - (Important to remember its not a punishment, the meaning of timeout is timeout of attention and is the opposite to timein i.e. time with attention - so the attention is the key point - which takes me back to my original point that it is not a punishment, but rather a learning tool). Children that age will do what gets attention (good or bad they usually don't care, all attention is good for little kids). Don't use the bedroom, find somewhere else to use and be consistent and do it in a timely manner so they associate it with the bad behaviour, you would be surprised at how effective this method is for very young and older children.

    reinforcement - ignore some bad behaviour and reward good behaviour. At around age three - four they can understand alot more, so you are able to explain to some degree bad behaviour and good behaviour - but children essentially do what works, so catch them doing good stuff as much as possible. This is based on the "matching law" which states, the relative rate of one response will essentially match the rate of reinforcement, i.e. the more you give attention to some behaviour the more it will happen.

    Try not to use "don't"…kids find it hard to get their head around it, much better to use "do" like "do be gentle, do be careful. do be nice, do wait for mummy…you get me. Tell them what you want them to do, not what you dont want them to do.

    Have a look at positive parenting, toddlers and beyond. They have some good tips and you can talk to other parents using these methods. They are so succesful that the government sponsors these programs to prevent behavioural problems early on.

    https://www.facebook.com/PositivePar...dlersandBeyond

    and here is the government sponsored program called triple p - you can sign up and do these classes, they are extremely effective.

    http://www.families.nsw.gov.au/adwor...FVGApAodmF1O2Q

    Empirically speaking, smacking is pretty ineffective in shaping behaviour in the long term, and most studies show no prosocial behaviour as a result and there are loads of studies showing correlations with anti social behaviour, especially aggressive behaviours - its seen as the least effective type of discipline for most kids. Regardless of moral arguments or opinions on whether it is right or wrong, my comments are only in relation to its effectiveness, the other side of it is up to the individual to decide.

    I reviewed around 50 studies on child discipline, so I have spent quite a bit of time on it and i also have a two yr old…so i know first hand how hard it can be.

    The other thing to remember is kids around 3 - 4 are just learning to regulate their emotions internally i.e themselves, prior to this they really need mum to help them regulate their emotions. So its still early days, and i am sure you are doing a great job.

    I usually write tips on my whiteboard so during the day I can remind myself how to deal with things because when you are in the moment and they are being naughty it is too difficult to come up with strategies - you have to have them planned out in your mind before hand.
    Last edited by Ulysses; 31-05-2012 at 09:59.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by EmyB View Post
    Ulysses that's fascinating stuff thankyou. Are there any concrete recommendations on what we as parents can do to avoid our child being a bully?? A lot of that seems to be inbuilt personality traits etc.
    EmyB, based on my notes and discussions with my lecturer, basically the development of empathy is huge, so having discussions can help your child here, where you can try to help your child imagine what is like to be another person in another situation etc. As I mention in my previous post, there are pretty substantial ties to aggressive behaviour through corporal punishment so maybe finding other ways to discipline outside of that if possible. For boys, it is important for them to be allowed to express their feelings and experience feelings, especially in our culture where men are often encouraged not to show emotions. If boys are only allowed to feel angry and aggressive (more male appropriate emotions in some circles) then after a while it becomes second nature and they block out the other feelings that allow them to identify with others. Also helping kids see that helping others and being kind to others is a sign of strength and not weakness.

    Hope this helps.
    Last edited by Ulysses; 31-05-2012 at 06:33.

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    So great to log on to bubhub this morning and see this thread.

    I haven't been logging on as much lately, but it's threads like these that keep me coming back.

    Thanks Ulysses.

    Anyway, back to topic....

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    Thanks Ulysses. These posts have been incredibly helpful!

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    Quote Originally Posted by misskittyfantastico View Post
    I haven't read all the posts, but "Children are People too" by Dr Louise Porter and anything by Alfie Kohn give great insight into why refraining from praise/punishment can be beneficial

    http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm
    both very excellent authors!
    in our family we DO praise, but try to make it more for effort 'good try!' rather than 'wow thats the best circle ever!' or for spontaneous acts such as coming up for a random kiss, or picking her toys up without being asked.
    im not a fan of time out, but if dd is rough (kicking my tummy when changing her bum is the latest) i will remove myself and say 'i dont like that. we are gentle with people' 99% of the time she follows and gives me a cuddle/says sorry (though we dont coach that)
    we also emotion coach, which ive found great. she will say 'im cross mummy' when something doesnt go her way. i think its important to acknowledge negative emotions and 'allow' her to be sad/cross/scared, rather than trying to protect her from any negative emotion.

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    Ulysses, in your reading, have you been able to find any studies yet that actually look at the association between use of praise by parents and bullying in children?


 

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