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  1. #381
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    Quote Originally Posted by halloweendee View Post
    such an emotive subject like this is bound to get tangled in with religion, personal beliefs etc.

    but the core is really about choice - do you agree to let people 'choose'.
    i think the same can be said about abortion where the discussion is not about 'would you' but 'should you deny others the choice'
    Its the whole gay marriage thing as well, I never understand why people are so against it- nobody is going to force anyone to be in a gay marriage, if they don't want to be, and the same applies here - no one is talking about forcing everyone to be euthanised even if they don't want to. Its all about choice, do I have the right to decide what happens to me if I am terminally ill?? Or does someone else have the right to decide what happens to me?

    I know which scenario I prefer!

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  3. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I can't multi quote but I actually asked how it's the same as abortion where backyard abortions kill otherwise healthy women when their intent was not to die? Committing suicide (and there are non violent ways btw) the result is their intent?
    Euthanasia is suicide, it's just assisted and legal so the person assisting isnt prosecuted. Being unassisted doesn't mean it needs to be violent or worse.
    The comparison wasnt between the subjects being healthy vs terminally ill - the comparison is that when something is legalised and professional assistance and drugs/techniques etc are available, there is reduced risk of adverse outcomes (in abortion - maternal death, in euthanasia - incomplete suicide), if that makes sense?

    Most people dont have access to barbituates, and if they did they may underdose and suffer immensely instead of die, so home suicide attempts can go wrong, or be more distressing or painful. If i had a terminal illness id rather the option of a large dose of barbituates, rather than taking a cocktail of prescription drugs which may not work, or having to shoot myself, etc.

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  5. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trooper View Post
    The comparison wasnt between the subjects being healthy vs terminally ill - the comparison is that when something is legalised and professional assistance and drugs/techniques etc are available, there is reduced risk of adverse outcomes (in abortion - maternal death, in euthanasia - incomplete suicide), if that makes sense?

    Most people dont have access to barbituates, and if they did they may underdose and suffer immensely instead of die, so home suicide attempts can go wrong, or be more distressing or painful. If i had a terminal illness id rather the option of a large dose of barbituates, rather than taking a cocktail of prescription drugs which may not work, or having to shoot myself, etc.

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    Surely the legal complications as well? (sorry haven't read all posts) Where did the deceased get the drugs? Then autopsies etc... Loved ones would be implicated and punished unnecessarily.

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  7. #384
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    i would think that home suicide attempts, successful or not, could end up being more traumatic for the family, especially if they find their loved one after the attempt.

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  9. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by misskittyfantastico View Post
    Surely the legal complications as well? (sorry haven't read all posts) Where did the deceased get the drugs? Then autopsies etc... Loved ones would be implicated and punished unnecessarily.
    Yep i made a similar point just scroll up the page a bit

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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trooper View Post
    Yep i made a similar point just scroll up the page a bit

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    Sorry, I'm skim hubbing tonight xx

  11. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I can't multi quote but I actually asked how it's the same as abortion where backyard abortions kill otherwise healthy women when their intent was not to die? Committing suicide (and there are non violent ways btw) the result is their intent?
    Euthanasia is suicide, it's just assisted and legal so the person assisting isnt prosecuted. Being unassisted doesn't mean it needs to be violent or worse.
    They weren't comparing abortion to euthanasia. They were saying that the argument of "they're going to do it anyway, we might as well give them a safe and legal way to do it" applies equally to both.

    For what it's worth, I'm 100% pro-choice and 100% pro-euthanasia, and I don't accept this argument. I don't think "people will do it anyway" is a good enough reason to condone or legalise something.

  12. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by lambjam View Post

    For what it's worth, I'm 100% pro-choice and 100% pro-euthanasia, and I don't accept this argument. I don't think "people will do it anyway" is a good enough reason to condone or legalise something.
    Yes I agree with this.

    I don't believe terminally I'll patients are having incomplete suicide attempts to warrant a law being passed. We do see and hear of patients dying of morphine overdoses which happens a lot, I've seen this 1st hand, it was neither traumatic or painful.
    Legalising euthanasia is about protecting family members and dr's from litigation and some patients wanting to choose a time while they're lucid to pass peacefully and not have to endure extreme suffering. And I do believe only a very select few would choose euthanasia.
    I don't accept legalising euthanasia based on harm minimisation. I do accept the above reasons.

  13. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Yes I agree with this.

    I don't believe terminally I'll patients are having incomplete suicide attempts to warrant a law being passed. We do see and hear of patients dying of morphine overdoses which happens a lot, I've seen this 1st hand, it was neither traumatic or painful.
    Legalising euthanasia is about protecting family members and dr's from litigation and some patients wanting to choose a time while they're lucid to pass peacefully and not have to endure extreme suffering. And I do believe only a very select few would choose euthanasia.
    I don't accept legalising euthanasia based on harm minimisation. I do accept the above reasons.
    I should add the families already performing euthanasia and being prosecuted for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    i would think that home suicide attempts, successful or not, could end up being more traumatic for the family, especially if they find their loved one after the attempt.

    The side to home suicides that many people don't realize is the clean up. Having cleaned up after a suicide it's an awful awful awful thing. Death is not pretty, it's messy, it's smelly and it's blardy traumatic.

    Leagalised euthanasia also means dignity after death and less trauma for the people left behind.

    Opa was able to make sure that Oma had virtually no clean up - even the funeral director had been organized to be at the house the next day at an agreed time. Opa had the funeral organized - everything was organized.

    Whereas my family had to deal with the agony of wishing my grandma out of pain and guilt for wishing her dead etc etc. We had three years of watching her p1ss herself, shat herself, not being able to feed herself, not being able to have a conversation with her, watching her die slowly agonizingly in pain. She was blind, deaf, and had advanced dementia, she had type 2 diabetes, was incontinent and incoherrant. She had often asked to be allowed to die when we had years earlier watched her mother and father go in the same horrible way. The only sop is that her mind was no longer aware of the degradation of her body.

    Id go to jail if I inflicted the same torteous agony upon a person and somehow it's legal to let nature do this. I'd be fined and probably jailed if I let a dog or vat longer such a disgusting existence but must stand aside for and watch a human's body go through the same.

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