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  1. #311
    rainbow road's Avatar
    rainbow road is offline look at the stars, look how they shine for you
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    If someone brings god into a debate, other's have the right to rebut it just as you can rebut an argument by bringing god into it. You can't play god as your "no one can argue with me because this is my personal god" if you're stating that because of YOUR belief in god, euthanasia should be illegal for everyone.

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  3. #312
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    Quote Originally Posted by knomie View Post
    I think when she said 'born' she was referring to 'conceived' as this is what most people believe.
    well when you are able to conceive and give birth on the same day - then i'll agree with the wording. until then, NO - born does not mean conceived.

    And yeah, while i'm not going to jump into the fray - you're on a very very ugly-slippery slope there regarding ivf et al. :-/

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    I'm pro choice for lots of reasons, but then I have issues with non medical late term abortions. I would never support a woman aborting at 35 weeks just because it's her body her choice. I'd probably support to keep that illegal. I get what people are saying though, I do. After reading the guidelines I'd probably support it because its strict and would be a thorough process. But I also understand against arguments and someone basing their stance on their belief system. I know it shouldn't affect someone who doesn't believe in those, but thats just how it is, people's opinions will be affected by what they believe and their opinion also matters. I guess I just found issue with saying no one else matters, no else is affected and its their choice, when in reality yes people are affected by death.

    I think the comparison to choosing when to have an elective c/s is like playing God, I don't agree. The individual person is not choosing when to be born, the baby isn't communicating and setting their due date. The mother and dr may choose that date, but not the baby. So to grow up and then be able to choose the day you die and have people help you die is quite different.
    Yes I do also believe God chooses the day you're born and the day you die.
    Do you honestly believe that women at 35weeks gestation are going to be considered candidates for abortion in this country? yes i'm aware that some countries like china may allow it - but we're a pretty far stretch from china although imo, she should be given the option of giving the baby up for adoption and having an early induction after steroid admin at 36-37weeks. (that said - i'd love to debate what should happen for women who want to 'abort' between 24-36 weeks. not that i think its a common occurance, but it'd be an interesting topic )

    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    What do people think about this?
    I actually think its a legitimate offer. I think someone who is over 70, but not terminally ill, is probably less likely to be forced into the decision by greedy family, than someone who is ill, in pain and possibly more easily swayed.
    I can't imagine most people would go for it. But for some, it may be a good option.
    If they're developing alzheimers or MS, or if they have chronic pain issues (that aren't terminal).

    Honestly, i'd probably prefer euthenasia to a nursing home once i'm no longer able to take proper care of myself. and i'd rather be able to hold my families hands, and tell them i love them, than sneaking away in the night without telling them because i don't want them to get in trouble for it.

    I don't know why the numbers are increasing though. i assume its because initially people didn't really know the laws, whether it was what they wanted etc. Most new things take a few years to reach their peak. And all things considered, the numbers still aren't outrageously high. But obviously they need to ensure that the protocols are followed closely, and consider actions when they're not (9 in 3K is quite a high rate of not following protocol - but i'd be interested to know how they weren't following protocol).

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  5. #313
    SpecialPatrolGroup's Avatar
    SpecialPatrolGroup is offline T-rex is cranky until she gets her coffee.
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    Quote Originally Posted by knomie View Post
    Isn't Julia Gillard an atheist?
    She doesn't agree to alot of things, such as equal marriage. But that's all im gonna say

    mummy to gods gift to us
    Well, in truth we don't know that she personally is against marriage equality, what we do know is that she is towing the party line. But marriage is a separate issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    So we're blaming religion and we're going to discuss religion for the reason euthanasia is illegal in this country? Just ignore everything else.
    Another thread of who's who in the sport of 'I hate religion' cbf.
    Where have I ever said that I hate religion?

    Anyway, I think you're taking things too personally.

    You seem quite progressive with your beliefs, others are not, and it's ok for people to challenge those views.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knomie View Post
    Ahh.... here we go again....
    Its the same god! We have different beliefs of the bibles interpretation!

    in the same tone, like I said in my original answer, I completely understand the reasons behind euthanasia and while personally I can't support it, I totally understand the people who do!

    Should it become legal, I will have no protest.

    God gave us free will and at the end of the day, it is the patient who will have the Right to end their own life and that is that.



    mummy to gods gift to us
    I disagree. I would not like to meet your god! Lily's god seems great

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  10. #316
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I don't think you should be getting offended by people questioning what god is responsible for. People are just asking knomie about her god, and from what I have read, her god is a lot different to your god, so don't take it as an attack on you or your god. It's knomie's god people are questioning, not yours.
    I'm not getting offended I just know where it's going. I'm not going to defend ones rights to believe in God, but I'm ot going to support someone blaming their belief in God as to why something is illegal when there are many many reasons for that that no one wants to discuss. Instead God and religion becomes a much more interesting discussion for people who don't even believe in God.
    I don't get it. Discussing someones belief in God is not going to get to the core of the issue. I would have rathered discussed that thats all. Having cases reported as my above post is interesting. How would it affect ones legal rights if something goes wrong, will more dr's get sued, how will much will it cost us, things like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandalf View Post
    well when you are able to conceive and give birth on the same day - then i'll agree with the wording. until then, NO - born does not mean conceived.

    And yeah, while i'm not going to jump into the fray - you're on a very very ugly-slippery slope there regarding ivf l).
    What is wrong with you!?

    Are you just wanting to pick a fight?
    Of course I know that born doesn't mean conceived... oh you know what, I couldn't be bothered

    mummy to gods gift to us

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    I feel religion is a big part of why euthanasia is not legal....

  14. #319
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    And yes I realised I was telling people what to discuss and I can't do that. But I was just trying to push the conversation forward and past that so it doesn't become a slinging match. I don't want to be defending God or religion and that's where these discussions end up. I'd prefer to discuss it deeper and further then on this surface level of religion, its a social issue that deserves more investigating.
    Thanks Gandalf for that post.

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    Quote Originally Posted by knomie View Post
    What is wrong with you!?

    Are you just wanting to pick a fight?
    Of course I know that born doesn't mean conceived... oh you know what, I couldn't be bothered
    i'm trying very hard not to be argumentative actually.
    its an interesting topic

    but yeah, i'm going to respond to you when you try to tell me someone meant 'conceived' when they said 'born'. cause that's not even close to the same thing


 

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