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  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trooper View Post
    Ok so im also really curious as to why people think those who die from horrible, painful terminal illness have less 'dignity' than someone who chooses euthanasia at an earlier stage of a disease? Not having a go at you halloweendee, but dignity is something that is brought up alot around euthanasia debate/discussion, and for me personally i dont see dying from a horrible illness as 'undignified'

    Sent from my GT-I9100T using BubHub
    the definition of dignity in moral, ethical and political discussions signifies that every being has an innate right to respect and ethical treatment.

    for my mother and grandmother, having to shower, toilet, sponge bath, feed, medicate, clean up vomit etc. was very undignified.
    they were both very proud, strong women (especially my grandmother) and it was humiliating. she would constantly cry because of this.

    it is not the act of dying from a terminal illness that is undignified, it is what comes with it (and not all people experience these things). but for those that do have illnesses with these symptoms/side effects it can be undignified, embarrassing, humiliating....

    for me i would want the choice to avoid putting my children through watching and taking care of me in this situation.

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  3. #252
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily of the Nile View Post
    Not a final answer yet, still thinking about it. Do you view them differently?
    I was talking about the point you brought up about an individual's decision affecting those around them who may hold a religious view, or not agree.
    I gather you were suggesting (or thinking out loud) that the family around the person dying should have their thoughts and beliefs taken into consideration before teh medical intervention took place?
    Some people don't agree with abortion and would be very upset, traumatised etc if their female family member terminated a pregnancy.
    Whose right gets higher priority?

    I personally view them in a similar light, 'your body, your choice'
    Last edited by FiveInTheBed; 28-05-2012 at 23:10.

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  5. #253
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    Quote Originally Posted by Super Trooper View Post
    Ok so im also really curious as to why people think those who die from horrible, painful terminal illness have less 'dignity' than someone who chooses euthanasia at an earlier stage of a disease? Not having a go at you halloweendee, but dignity is something that is brought up alot around euthanasia debate/discussion, and for me personally i dont see dying from a horrible illness as 'undignified'

    Sent from my GT-I9100T using BubHub
    No dying from a horrible condition isnt undignified, living with a horrible condition that stops you wiping your own ar5e, feeding yourself, washing yourself, and being unable to communicate is often felt to be undignified by the sufferer.

    Opa decided too end his own life once he couldn't get to the toilet and couldnt cean himself up. He 'coped' with the slurring and drooling, he coped with the tics and the inability to scratch himself, but one day his pride just took one more blow than he could swallow, he could no longer wipe his own tears, blw his nose or cope with the agonising excruitiating pain and he died at home in his own bed next to his wife of 60+ years at a time of his own choosing with assistance by his Dr.

  6. #254
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    I guess it's comes down to trust. My mother is terrified of dying in pain or of a long terminal illness. We have an understanding and she knows that if it reached that point, I would not prolong her suffering if she couldn't take it anymore. I'd risk anything for her to be able to drift away surrounded by family, than gasping for her last breath, terrified.

    Our friends father is in his final weeks of motor neurone disease. They have told the family to prepare for it to be very traumatic, probably with him choking. I think people should have a choice how they die, when death is imminent anyway. I'd hope to have that choice if I'm
    In the same situation.

  7. #255
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ana Gram View Post
    Hmm, well I don't. I see nothing important about watching someone suffer. So why again, why should people like me have to suffer because people like you think we get some sort of growth out of it?



    The doctors who have the skills and the patient who is suffering get to decide. It shouldn't concern the rest of us. And I actually find your last part quite offensive.


    Well, I don't agree with you. You don't get to decide what is 'best for non-believers', I find that quite... I don't know, superior, arrogant maybe.

    I agree that the lack of love and respect for the elderly is sadly lacking but we are talking about the terminally ill here, not offing old people.
    Well I told you MY BELIEFS about the question at hand and YES I don't make the laws however do have an opinion which I'm voicing. I believe it's IMMORAL to euthanise someone for whatever reasons coz we don't have the right to take away lives, God does and yes, I believe for ME it strengthened me as a person and I grew and gained a lot from MY experiences.

    Secondly, you find it offensive that I say that people could possibly euthanise their family members for personal financial gain? Well it does happen. I wasn't accusing YOU of being capable of such an act. I know people who have put their parents with dimentia into homes and are waiting for the chance to pounce on their inheritance. It does happen!

    Thirdly, when I said "for those reasons i don't think it's best not an option for non-believers", I was talking about the parts that had nothing to do with my belief in a God and the fact that I believe it's up to God to decide our exit from this earth, just as I believe He decided when we were to be born.

    And lastly, when I mentioned the "elderly" instead of the "terminally ill" - that was a slip on my part probably due to the fact that most of us do die and get these terminal diseases when we're past the age of 60, therefore the term elderly. But yes, I'm also referring to the terminally ill.

    I was just giving my opinion and point of view... no need to take such offence. If you disagree, so be it. Ultimately, I am not the law maker of this land however will obviously give my angle based on all of my belief systems when deciding what ought to be.

  8. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigRedV View Post
    I don't think religious views should form your view on this subject.

    My mum is deteriorating daily before our eyes. She has MS. It's a horrible disease. I can see my mum is in pain. She is a mere shadow of her former self and she hates it. She hates not being able to walk unaided, get dressed by herself, make dinner, carry a cup of tea to the table. I would have no problem ending her pain if she ever asked. My dad is religious, he would do it in an instant as well.
    Don't religious views come into play in all you do? It does for me, coz that's my core belief. God is the centre of my being... that's just how I see it.

  9. #257
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    Quote Originally Posted by Benji View Post
    what about those who are so sick the doctors have stopped treating? Do you think that cancers are going to shrink themselves?

    We're not discussing the elderly here, we're discussing the terminally sick.

    I feel sick at this thread, i'm so sorry for all of those out there who are suffering through things we can't imagine. I hope the laws change for you sooner than later. My goodness, that poor woman dying while throwing up her own fecal matter Truly horrifying
    No cancers will not shrink themselves. Yes the likelyhood is that the patient will die if no more treatment is possible, but I believe it needs to happen naturally. It is sad and harsh and difficult to see... but that is just what I believe.

    This is very personal to me... extremely.. recent and personal and I am also very emotional about this and I know how horrible it is to watch your loved on pass on.... but I still believe it's what is right.

    I know we're talking about the terminally ill... it was an error on my part that I used the term elderly. Most terminally ill are elderly as most people die at old age above 60... which is why I used the word. But yes I
    I'm talking of the terminally ill NOT elderly.

  10. #258
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    Halloweendee:
    Perhaps it's individual. I can't speak for you and didn't attempt to do so. I am speaking of my experiences and how they impacted ME. Perhaps you need to be in a certain spiritual place in order to feel the way I do.

    As for the world... a greater percentage of the world believes in an afterlife whether it be a heaven or nirvana or something similar than a nothingness as perhaps you do.... but that's another thread
    Last edited by brownsugar; 29-05-2012 at 01:04.

  11. #259
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    Lily of the Nile:
    I was actually talking of MYSELF and my spiritual and emotional growth through the sufferings of my family. It dramatically changed my life and I will be ever thankful for those experiences.

    However, of course I agree with you about us losing those emotions. We lose the ability to care for another even when it inconveniences our own nuclear families, it encourages selfishness, it takes away that close bonding that is possible during such emotionally traumatic times.

    If you are still breathing, your mission on earth is incomplete. I honestly believe that.
    Last edited by brownsugar; 29-05-2012 at 01:05.

  12. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by brownsugar View Post
    I was actually talking of MYSELF and my spiritual and emotional growth through the sufferings of my family. It dramatically changed my life and I will be ever thankful for those experiences.
    I wouldnt want to sustain another beings suffering in order for me to 'grow spiritually'

    Nursing my MIL was the second hardest thing Ive ever had to do. I wouldnt wish that experience on anyone. She was a proud, private woman, who couldnt bear to have a stranger (or her sons) doing her personal care. She often cried at the 'burden' she was putting on us (apart from the actual nursing we had to take a toddler 450km away from home for 6 months, quit work/study, and I camped on the floor outside MILs door incase she needed something overnight, whilst dealing with my pregnancy, and my immediate families needs) though it never truly was a burden. She raised my soulmate, there was no question of me not helping her in her journey.
    We were VERY lucky in the way her journey ended (it was the best case scenario, and she was lucid enough to say goodbye to her family towards the end) and the fact that it wasnt the predicted 2 years of wasting away, seizures, vomiting blood and faeces, weeping bedsores, hair loss, loss of speech, more memory loss and brain damage, gangrene and amputations. (as her mother died, so she was well aware of the diseases progression)
    At any point had she wanted assistance ending her life, I would have given it without hesitation, regardless of the consequences.


 

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